Help!, new remote area pressure tank install

Discussion in 'Pumps and Tanks Well Forum & Blog' started by Mike8623, Dec 12, 2007.

  1. Mike8623

    Mike8623 New Member

    Messages:
    3
    OK follks need some help and advise from those in the know and those that have went before me.

    I have a travel trailer set up on a remote piece of property in montana. I have a well all plumbed with electrical ande hose bibbs. I spend 8 months a year there and leave when it snows and freezes. I currently have a garden hose hooked up to one of my hose bibbs about 20 yards from my trailer. When I need water I go out put the hose in the water tank for the trailer, go turn on the pump at a electrical box and fill the trailer water tank.......when I use all the water I do the whole process all over again......it is a pain keep filling the tank.......I also can't put out a garden hose and water the flora and fauna because the pump has to run continuously to supply water.........sooo

    I have thought about putting in a small pressure tank then run a hose from the tank to my trailer for full time water.

    My thoughts.........run a water hose from my hose bibb and intall it on the incoming side of the pressure tank........put the tank next to my electrical box and apply power, then run a water hose from the outgoing part of the pressure tank to the trailer for full time water.......then somewhere between the pressure tank and the trailer, put in a T and come off the tee with a valve so that I can hook up another water hose and use that for outside watering...........

    So everyone tell me where I am wrong, or what can I do to make this work on a temporary basis...........please, lots of advise.........everyone give me your opinion and thoughts.
  2. valveman

    valveman Moderator Staff Member

    Messages:
    4,466
    Location:
    Lubbock, Texas
    The pump running continuously when you are watering is a good thing. You will need to install a pressure switch with the bladder tank. This switch will turn the pump on at 40 and off at 60 PSI, or 30/50 PSI. Now when you water the flora and fauna, the pump will turn on and off continuously, which is a bad thing. When you water, you need to use enough hoses to keep the pump running continuously or use a Cycle Stop Valve before the tank. The CSV will keep the pump from starting and stopping when you are using small amounts of water. The CSV will also allow you to use a much smaller than normal tank. Otherwise, you are on the right track.
  3. Mike8623

    Mike8623 New Member

    Messages:
    3
    Pressure Tank

    So what if I set the sprinkler and let it water for 3-4 hours......won't that be harmful to the pump.....

    What size pressure tank do you think would the best to get.........so that the pump doesn't cycle as much.......
  4. Rancher

    Rancher Guest

    Your pump is happy running all the time, a CSV will cause it to choke back it's output to fill a pressure tank to allow it to run longer artificially, you don't need to do that. Unless you want to hook up your trailer permanently to the well, and I guess this is a mobile unit that you take with you. So with the pressure tank and the CSV you now have other stuff you have to winterize when you leave, or replace when you come back next
    Spring.

    Rancher
  5. Bob NH

    Bob NH In the Trades

    Messages:
    3,317
    Location:
    New Hampshire
    First, what are the requirements?

    1. Keep the trailer tank filled.
    2. Have some water to water the flora and fauna.
    3. Don't cycle the pump too much.

    Solution.
    1. Put a float switch in the tank to turn on the pump when the level is low. Have a provision to disconnect that float switch when the trailer goes away.
    2. Put a float valve in the tank to prevent it from filling if the pump is running for "flora and fauna" and the tank is full. The valve will be full-open when the float switch is calling for water.
    3. Add a simple light switch to turn on when you want to water the flora and fauna. It will be connected along with the float switch through a relay which will turn on the pump.
    4. Use a big enough hose for watering so that you are using the full capacity of the pump.
    5. Install a relief valve so that the pump can't overpressurize the system if/when you have the pump turned on with the hose nozzle closed.

    Features of the system:
    1. No tank required.
    2. Pump runs at capacity when it is needed.
    3. Trailer tank fill is automatic.
    4. No change in control system at the well.
  6. sammyhydro11

    sammyhydro11 Previous member

    Messages:
    709
    Location:
    Massachusetts
    Mike,
    all you need for this application is a tank and a pressures switch to run the pump. A CSV will work and will keep you from having to install a large holding tank. The whole system will work automatically and you will not have to flip any switches or install any float switches. Winterizing will be as simple as it was before, now you would just have a tank and another line to drain. If you need to run an extra line for something else just run a tee off the discharge of the tank. This is a very simple application,some people make it sound more difficult than it actually is.

    Sammy
  7. valveman

    valveman Moderator Staff Member

    Messages:
    4,466
    Location:
    Lubbock, Texas
    Oh My God! That would be a complicated way to try accomplish the task at hand. I think it would be very difficult to install a float switch in an enclosed camper tank. The simplest and best way to make this work would be to use a 20 gallon bladder tank with a pressure switch and a Cycle Stop Valve.

    Then you could hook a hose up to the trailer and have pressurized water without the little noisy and low pressure pump in the trailer ever having to come on. You would also be able to water with a hose anyway you want. Even installing a huge pressure tank by itself, the pump will still cycle on and off unless you open up a lot of water. If you do not use a Cycle Stop Valve, then you must run enough hoses to keep the pump running continuously. 3 or 4 hours or even 24 hours of the pump running continuously won't hurt a thing. Cycling on and off for 3 or 4 hours is a very bad thing for the pump.

    The little 20 gallon size pressure tank and the pressure switch could be put on with a couple of unions. Then you could easily throw the little tank in storage, or the back seat of a car and take it with you. There are lots of ways you COULD make this work. The small tank and a CSV is the way knowledgeable professionals would do it.


    Thanks Sammy. You beat me to the post.
  8. Rancher

    Rancher Guest

    Let's re-state the problem, filling the tank in the trailer. The CSV and pressure tank will not fill the tank in the trailer, it will still have to be done manually.

    We all agree that this is a non-problem.

    I would install a float switch in the tank, all RV tanks that I have ever worked on have a access hatch in the top to get to the inside to clean, or replace the pump if it uses an internal pump.

    I would turn off the hose bib to the trailer when I wanted to water the plants, and flip the switch in parallel with the float switch to turn on the pump to allow it to run for as long as you want.

    Rancher
  9. sammyhydro11

    sammyhydro11 Previous member

    Messages:
    709
    Location:
    Massachusetts
    With a pressure tank and switch there would be no need for a reserve tank in the trailer. It would be set up like every home with a well system.

    I cant believe the confusion that you guys create. I spend more time correcting poor advice than i do giving advice and thats the reason why i dont post as much anymore.

    Sammy
  10. sammyhydro11

    sammyhydro11 Previous member

    Messages:
    709
    Location:
    Massachusetts
    I would hate see a float switch fail and have my trailer flooded!

    Sammy
  11. speedbump

    speedbump Previous member

    Messages:
    4,540
    Location:
    Riverview, Fl.
    You Engineers need to stop re-inventing the water system.

    Sammy and Valveman gave very good/simple advice that works perfectly every time and you guys have Mike cutting open his pressure tank in his trailer to install float switches and installing light switches to operate pump motors that would otherwise destroy most light switches.

    So we have added:
    1. A Float Switch
    2. A Float Valve
    3. A light Switch (that can hopefully handle the starting current of a pump motor)
    4. A Relay
    5. A very large hose that will keep up with the pumps capacity
    6. A Relief Valve.
    Now really guys, isn't this a little more difficult than a simple tank, pressure switch and CSV?

    bob...
  12. valveman

    valveman Moderator Staff Member

    Messages:
    4,466
    Location:
    Lubbock, Texas
    You don't have to fill the storage tank in the camper. You just hook up a hose to the camper the same as if you had pulled into a regular RV park. Water and pressure now come from the well pump instead of the camper storage tank and the little noisy demand pump in the camper.
  13. Mike8623

    Mike8623 New Member

    Messages:
    3
    Thanks All and one last request

    Hey guys the response was great........lots of great advice..........I don't think I will have any problem getting set up this summer.........I have a very remote place with Grizzlys, Moose, Woves and such........what a paradise.......I want to make sure I have full time water.......and a way to water a large clover field over my septic system area......The elk need a little protein............so thanks to all. I don't think I have ever had the amount of response to a problem on any site I have posted on............hey since I have a lot of folks here.........I've one other small problem.........at the bottom of my property I have two wells..........total depth is about 50 feet each with water levels at about 25-30 ft. On one of these I stumbled through annd set up a solar float water system to fill a large stock waterer for the critters.....it works pretty well.......on the other I bought a simple metal pitcher pump hand pump........well it just doesn't quite get it.......I've looked til I am blue in the face for a economical hand pump that will draw and pump at about 30-35 feet without paying 200-300 dollars or more for a bison pump...........a guy would think that someone would make a cheaper hand pump that would pump at that depth........I like to grab a drink of water every once in a while as I go by...............

    Any suggestions............oh and thanks again for all the help.

    Mike
  14. sammyhydro11

    sammyhydro11 Previous member

    Messages:
    709
    Location:
    Massachusetts
    The maximum depth that i have been able to pull water from, with a pitcher pump, is 30'. I know speedbump sells them at www.pumpsandtanks.com.

    Sammy
  15. Rancher

    Rancher Guest

    A pitcher pump is only good to about 27', and then it really depends on your elevation, because what is happening is, at that depth you're pulling a vacuum on the water and the water is evaporating. The Bison Pump puts the cylinder down at the water level with a pump rod, much like how a windmill works.

    If your trailer can take a hose hookup like at a overnite trailer park, then your best setup would be a bladder tank and a pressure switch. Don't worry about over cycling your pump, it won't last anyway because you are leaving it sit for 4 months a year, plan on replacing it every 5 years with or without a CSV.

    Rancher
  16. valveman

    valveman Moderator Staff Member

    Messages:
    4,466
    Location:
    Lubbock, Texas
    Actually, in the well is a very good place to store a pump. Constant temperature and pressure, submersed in fluid, very protected environment, not cycling or even running, etc.. Frictionless bearings in a submersible motor and pump really don't need regular exercise like ball bearings do. Pumps can still get hit by lightning even when not connected to power or being used. Other than that, I have thrown the juice to submersibles that had not been started in decades and they started right up. Worst thing you can do is run just one hose or sprinkler, and let it cycle off and on for hours while it is being used.
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