Help-Need Input, Suggestions on Well Tank/Press Switch setup

Discussion in 'Pumps and Tanks Well Forum & Blog' started by xjjeepman, Mar 5, 2009.

  1. xjjeepman

    xjjeepman New Member

    Messages:
    13
    Location:
    Upstate NY
    Hello all,

    Well I recently went through a horrible well tank press switch installation to say the least. I tried to install myself, was able to remove old tank/switch, installed new tank tee,switch etc, but when i went to solder the pipes they wouldnt get dry enough and to say the least im not the best at it so i called a pro and he finished the job. (of course the pipe was dry since it was the next day)Well since i started the whole thing he only really did the pipe sweating. To say the least im not happy with everything, i should have upgraded the tank (have 2.5 baths) so it cycles alot. (20 Gal Blue steel Lowes special) Also the cheap switch i bought from Lowes (30-50PSI) sometimes doesnt work right, sometimes it will just drop to nothing and i will have to manually push the contacts on. Also since i did the taping of the pipes with threads on the tee they leak a little.

    I would like to upgrade to a Well Mate Fiberglass 40 gal tank and a 40/60 psi Square D switch.

    My questions;

    1. Is this is good setup? Quality tank/switch
    2. Can i upgrade from a 30/50 to a 40/60 (I have a submersible well pump)
    3. Is it ok to go to a 40 gal tank will i notice a difference in cycling?
    4. Is it best to use pipe dope or tape? Or pipe dope and tape? Also i was worried i was degrading these connections once soldering on the other end was heating up the entire assembly?
    5. Should i use a CSV valve? Since i dont like the pressure drop in between cycles. If so what type/brand? How do i know which one is right?
    6. Also which is better to use on these tanks a brass normal tee or these kits they sell with some that uses a union plastic coupling since these wellmates have a pipe that comes out from them already? see below


    Thanks for any input!!!!!!!

    Btw this is my parents setup-its a well mate and its a 40/60 D switch, but i was wondering if thats a csv on it too installed before the tank? can you tell?
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 10, 2011
  2. ncgeo

    ncgeo In the Trades

    Messages:
    47
    Location:
    North Carolina
    I'll give you my opinion on your questions; I've been through a lot of this but I'll admit I don't have the track record of some others who post here:

    1. Materials from Lowe's are average quality. I've used tanks from them on my last 2 wells and they worked fine, but I moved or upgraded equipment within a few years. Unfortunately Lowes is more focused on price than quality. Specifically on the pressure switch, Lowe's sells a China-made one but Square-D may also be manufacturing overseas now so a brand name is not always a sure bet . You can often (but not always) get better quality from a supply house or a tradesperson. The problem with buying from a supply house is an individual will often be charged dramatically higher prices than a tradesperson would. I've experienced that first-hand.

    2. Generally you can upgrade to the higher pressure, assuming your pump is capable of producing that higher pressure (it should be). But for a constant tank size your pump will cycle more at the higher pressures. Also you will need to raise the air pressure in your tank.

    3. A bigger tank is better, your pump will cycle less. It should be matched to the pump output, which should be matched to the maximum usage. I've read that you should have a minimum 2 minute run time on the pump.

    4. I use teflon dope, but I think either dope or tape is fine. With regard to soldering you don't want to solder to that male adapter when it is connected to the tee; the tee acts like a big heat sink and sucks away all of the heat from the solder connection. Instead solder a 1 foot or so pipe stub to the male adapter before installing to the tee, and then couple that stub to the existing pipe. That extra one foot distance from the tee will work wonders when soldering the coupling. Also use a hotter mapp gas torch, you want to apply more heat for a shorter time. And to prevent water from leaking back, stuff the pipe with some white bread to create a temporary seal. Works every time, although you sometimes have to clean the bread form your faucet aerators afterward.

    [​IMG]

    5. A CSV seems to be the way to go for maintaining constant pressure and minimizing pipe cycling. I am considering for my using with my water-source heat pump; now I have an 86 gal tank but I'm still cycling like 10 times an hour. Cycle Stop Valve is the brand, but there may be other brand valves out there that maintain constant pressure.

    6. I prefer the brass tank tees, the union set-up seems geared more toward speedy installation. Spend a little extra time to eliminate the extra connection.

    Oh, that's a check valve and not a CSV in that last photo.
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 5, 2009
  3. xjjeepman

    xjjeepman New Member

    Messages:
    13
    Location:
    Upstate NY
    Thanks Ronaldg, i appreciate the input.

    How can i tell if my pump can handle the higher pressure/larger tank?

    So use a yellow tank tyoe torch right, not blue?

    Whats a check valve and do i need one??
  4. ncgeo

    ncgeo In the Trades

    Messages:
    47
    Location:
    North Carolina
    With regard to the higher pressure setting, to be 100% accurate you would need the pump curve which would tell you the pumoing head pressure, the pumping level of your well (distance form water level to surface while pumping), and friction loss in the pipe to run a calculation. You may not have that info. But I would just try adjusting the pressure on your current switch, you can probably squeak a few more punds out of it. There should be a label under the switch cover with the adjustment instructions.

    Yes MAPP gas is a yellow tank. Note some torch head can handle the higher temperature, while others are only for propane. I've soldered one inch copper with propane but it is certainly easier with MAPP gas. Whichever gas you use keep the connection away from that tank tee!

    You absolutely need a check valve somewhere between the pump and tank, else the water in the tank will run back into the well when the pump stops. There should be one built in the pump and often there is also one installed on the pipe just above the pump. But if there is a leak a new one is often put at the tank, rather than pull the pump. I don't believe multiple check valves are a problem but I think there is some thread on this eaxct topic
  5. xjjeepman

    xjjeepman New Member

    Messages:
    13
    Location:
    Upstate NY
    Well if stick with the 30/50 to be safe and use a csv im assuming it would be much better. As for a check valve i dont see one anywhere on my setup so maybe it has one on the pump? Its been this way for 24 years so i assume its ok this way??
  6. speedbump

    speedbump Previous member

    Messages:
    4,540
    Location:
    Riverview, Fl.
    That is a check valve and it should be removed. It's just to the left of the plastic insert fitting. It also has a round label on it.

    To see if the pump will make the extra ten pounds simply hold down on the plate that the springs push down on while the pump is running. That will keep it running past it's normal pressure. If it will make the extra ten pounds plus another five, it should be fine.

    The CSV is the way to go and it could go where the check valve is now. Then you can use a small tank.

    By the way, Lowes tanks are junk and so are Well Mates.

    bob...
  7. xjjeepman

    xjjeepman New Member

    Messages:
    13
    Location:
    Upstate NY
    OH-this pic is of my parents setup that was just installed not too long ago. Why should the check valve be removed??

    So im assuming for my setup a check valve is not needed?

    I will check the pump pressure the way you explained, thx

    As for the CSV, how do i know what size to get and from where? Any special install instructions?

    So if well mates are junk which is a good tank to go with???

    TIA!
  8. thassler

    thassler New Member

    Messages:
    106
    Location:
    Tennessee
    The check valve should be removed for sanitation reasons. If a leak develops between your submersible pump and the second check valve, contaminated water can be drawn into the pipe.


    ** Not a professional only a DIY.
  9. speedbump

    speedbump Previous member

    Messages:
    4,540
    Location:
    Riverview, Fl.
    Thassler is correct. And there are many threads here discussing this. You can go to the top of this forum and read the Sticky that explains in detail why there should not be a check valve in the home. It's located here:
    http://www.terrylove.com/forums/showthread.php?t=26301

    You should be looking at the CSV1Z Cycle Stop Valve which you can buy from me if you like. I have the best pricing on the Internet as far as I know.

    Almost forgot, the best tanks are the Well X Trol and the Flexcon Bladder Tank. You can also get the Flexcon from me.

    bob...
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 10, 2011
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