Help isolate SQE/CU301 problem

[Valveman]

No that looks like just a coupling with a plug in the top, not a check valve. But it still doesn't mean that there can't be two or more check valves in the well. One will be on top of the pump, but there could be another before the pipe comes out of the well.

 

[Reach4]

In post #19 treetops indicated that the pump could do over 100 PSI at his pressure gauge with no flow before the test was terminated. I read this as indicating that the pressure might have gone higher. Maybe the pressure tank was still connected, and treetops was rightly concerned that the pressure tank could be damaged by even higher pressures. Still, this 100 PSI level would put some kind of limit as to how much leak there could be. I would expect about 130 PSI (based on 350-50 ft head) if the static water level was about 40 or 50 feet down.

 

[Sponsor]

 

[Valveman]

That pump can only build 138 PSI max. If you are seeing 100 PSI at the top (with closed valve), the water level has to be at 87' or shallower. If the water level is 45' and the pump will only produce 100 PSI against a closed valve, the pump curve shows that 15 GPM is still going somewhere.

 

[treetops]

That pump can only build 138 PSI max. If you are seeing 100 PSI at the top (with closed valve), the water level has to be at 87' or shallower. If the water level is 45' and the pump will only produce 100 PSI against a closed valve, the pump curve shows that 15 GPM is still going somewhere.

When I did this test, I inadvertently had all the taps turned off, so no flow. Pressure tank was still connected. CU301 controller was completely bypassed.
When I saw the relief valve start to leak and pressure gauge was at 100 and still seemed to be rising , I rushed to turn off the pump before any damage occurred.

 

[treetops]

When I did this test, I inadvertently had all the taps turned off, so no flow. Pressure tank was still connected. CU301 controller was completely bypassed.
When I saw the relief valve start to leak and pressure gauge was at 100 and still seemed to be rising , I rushed to turn off the pump before any damage occurred.

Just spoke to my pump installer. He said there is only one check valve and its at top of pump. S that should rule out a pipe leak.
Suggested I try and check what static level is . I will drop in ice cube and count time to splash.
He is thinking the impellers may be clogged up with iron bacteria as I have a lot of this in my system. Wants me to do a shock chlorination - 4gallons of bleach down the well and run hose 1 hour then sit overnite.
Worth a try before pulling pump!
Will reply when I have results.
Thanks!!

 

[LLigetfa]

He is thinking the impellers may be clogged up with iron bacteria as I have a lot of this in my system.

Iron or IRB? I've not known the bacteria to clog impellers but I do know that precipitated iron will clog up the pipes and no amount of shocking will unclog it.

 

[treetops]

Iron or IRB? I've not known the bacteria to clog impellers but I do know that precipitated iron will clog up the pipes and no amount of shocking will unclog it.

Definitely iron bacteria!!!
Probably unlikely it clogged impellers but worth a try.
I get lots of iron bacteria sludge and its always been an issue.

 

[Reach4]

Usually when you shock-treat a well, you recirculate the water back into the well casing, washing the sides with chlorinated water. Maybe the methods differ when you are trying to oxidize rather than sanitize. Plus I can see not recirculating while you are bringing up sludge. http://www.moravecwaterwells.com/disin_test.htm is my favorite sanitizing method.

Well people usually use pellets that will drop to the bottom past the pump to treat below. This may only be to provide part of the chlorine, since the liquid will be spread to the pump with time. I could not use the pellets since I have a 3.75 inch pump in a 4 inch casing. You have a 3 inch pump, so there would be clearance.

A restaurant supply house might have high range (250 ppm) chlorine test paper, which is handy to tell whether the chlorine bleach is circulating. Swimming pool test paper is too sensitive for this.

 

[LLigetfa]

I get lots of iron bacteria sludge and its always been an issue.

Iron, when oxidized forms a reddish brown sludge. Killing the IRB by shocking doesn't remove the iron that the IRB feeds on from the water, it only gets rid of the smell. If there is a rotten egg smell, there is likely to be IRB which shocking helps to control.

Chlorine is often also used to oxidize iron out of suspension. Iron oxide particles glob together (precipitate) which is then later removed by filtering. This precipitated iron will clog up pipes regardless of whether or not IRB is present. I don't have an IRB problem but I do have a problem with iron clogging up pipes before the iron filter.

 

[Craigpump]

That's not a check valve, it is a T with plugs in the branch, they probably didn't have an insert x insert coupling on hand.

We see plenty of pumps loaded with so much iron they can't move any water. It's also possible the suction screen could be partially blocked. I've seen suction screens clogged with grass because the previous guy was too lazy to wipe grass clippings off the poly pipe.

 

[treetops]

That's not a check valve, it is a T with plugs in the branch, they probably didn't have an insert x insert coupling on hand.

We see plenty of pumps loaded with so much iron they can't move any water. It's also possible the suction screen could be partially blocked. I've seen suction screens clogged with grass because the previous guy was too lazy to wipe grass clippings off the poly pipe.

 

[treetops]

Is the iron you are talking about iron bacteria or iron suspended in water?
Mine is definitely iron bacteria.

 

[Craigpump]

I don't know the chemistry of the stuff, but it's got the consistency of thin peanut butter.

I seriously doubt chlorinating the well will cut that stuff out of the impellers, but it's worth a try I suppose.

You might want to consider having the well treated with a product that can help control the iron bacteria. Cotey Chemical has something that is supposed to work very well.

 

[treetops]

I don't know the chemistry of the stuff, but it's got the consistency of thin peanut butter.

I seriously doubt chlorinating the well will cut that stuff out of the impellers, but it's worth a try I suppose.

You might want to consider having the well treated with a product that can help control the iron bacteria. Cotey Chemical has something that is supposed to work very well.

That sure sounds like iron bacteria. Forms a brown sludge in bottom of toilet tank. Like a very slimy gel. Awful stuff. And it stains. Proliferates in running water. Will make hot water e.g. shower water smell a bit like sulpher. I keep my hot water tank at 160. That kills the bacteria so my shower doesn't smell.
One remedy is to shock chlorinate the well every summer. But it's naturally occurring and it comes back.

 

[treetops]

Measured static level today but only after a 2 hour pump rest. It is at about 65ft. So not far from the 50ft or so I measured 10 years ago and that was in summer. Pump is at 180ft.
Tomorrow I will measure draw down and shock the well.

 

[Valveman]

Yes Iron bacteria will clog up the impellers. The clogged impellers will still build the correct max pressure, they just can’t let through the proper flow rate. The impellers are heavy from the extra material, which is why the amps do not decrease with the flow rate.

I think the spinning action of the impellers even accentuates the buildup of materials. With the pump spinning 10,600 RPM compared to a normal pump at 3,450 the material probably clogs even faster.

Yeah you will probably never get those impellers unclogged with a shock treatment, but it is worth a try. Maybe if you shock on a regular basis you can get to it before it becomes too thick for the shock to work.

 

[treetops]

Yes Iron bacteria will clog up the impellers. The clogged impellers will still build the correct max pressure, they just can’t let through the proper flow rate. The impellers are heavy from the extra material, which is why the amps do not decrease with the flow rate.

I think the spinning action of the impellers even accentuates the buildup of materials. With the pump spinning 10,600 RPM compared to a normal pump at 3,450 the material probably clogs even faster.

Yeah you will probably never get those impellers unclogged with a shock treatment, but it is worth a try. Maybe if you shock on a regular basis you can get to it before it becomes too thick for the shock to work.

Sounds like a very good analysis. Thanks Valveman.
Especially the part about higher RPMs causing faster buildup: known phenomena with iron bacteria growth. Maybe that's why regular pumps with slower speeds lasted longer before....but ultimately failed due to too many cyclings because of heat pump draw. Previous pumps cycled every 5minutes with heat pump running 24/7 in winter. One reason I went to constant pressure>

We shall see what happens.

 

[Valveman]

You might look into the Sulfur Eliminator. It aerates a little water and dumps it down the well. This should keep the material from building up in the pump and pipes. It may settle to the bottom of the well, so you would need a few feet of open hole below the pump. In other words your pump needs to be set a little ways off the bottom of the well.

 

[treetops]

Just an update.
Latest well test shows static level of 65ft and draw down to 87ft after running 10gpm for 2 hours. So not a well yield issue.

Also shock chlorinated with 4 gallons of bleach poured down the well and left standing for 48 hours.
Lots of red residue pumped out. Well is now pumping about 3 - 4 gpm more than before shocking.
Definitely looks like an iron bacteria clogging issue. Now must decide if pump should be pulled and cleaned or maybe do another shock treatment. ANY SUGGESTIONS?

Minus -2F outside today. Would love to wait til spring to do anything

 

[Reach4]

Treetops, it sure looks like your well guy knows what's going on. What does he suggest?