help finding posts about remote electrical service panel

Discussion in 'Pumps and Tanks Well Forum & Blog' started by kzaker, Jun 20, 2013.

  1. kzaker

    kzaker New Member

    Messages:
    4
    Location:
    WNY
    I have looked around a bit and cant seem to find any posts that address what it is that I am looking for..

    I'm looking to set up the well (I am not sure of depth but we are on the top of a small mountain) at a property that we own but only use during the summer.. There is only a camper on the property (and septic) so I need to house the parts somewhere. The property is in the Southern tier of NYS and will experience freezing (we don't use the water in winter obviously). ___ I will get more tech info on sunday---

    I have already built a "Dog House" from pressure treated lumber and 3/4 plywood that will be insulated before completion.

    I need to know what is the most logical set up for me to use?

    The well is about 20' from the main electrical service box (located on a pole) but the location of the camper is about 100' from the electric.

    what I THINK I want to do (and need to know if this makes sense or if I am missing something) IS run 6/3 to a sub panel that would be located INSIDE this insulated dog house (at the 100' location), use the subpanel to supply the camper and other items used at that location as well as supply the wells electric.

    So I want to use a double 60A breaker in the MAIN panel to the sub panel (located inside the well house if that is standard practice), then a double 30A for the deep well pump (I don't have the specs on hand at the moment), a 30A for the camper service (because it IS 100' from the panel) as well as a exterior 15A outlet for outside of the well house. the reason I say double 30A for the well is because that is what was on it in the cabin that was torn down, if that is required- I don't really know.

    or does it make more sense to house the well components closer to the main panel and well, wired directly into the main panel, and still run the 6/3 out to the camper as well as the water line???

    anyone with an opinion fell free to chime in.. Im sure many will say " just hire an electrician", but I still prefer to know what is proper and logical and not take for granted that a contractor will always know what is best.....
  2. leejosepho

    leejosepho DIY scratch-pad engineer

    What is the overall orientation, and what kind of service box do you already have at the pole? If the pump is in-line on the way to the camper and the service box is a quality exterior panel with room for more breakers, I would be inclined to just run circuits to the places needed. And if the service box is only a meter base, I would likely replace it with a new exterior meter base that is also a panel.
    Last edited: Jun 20, 2013
  3. kzaker

    kzaker New Member

    Messages:
    4
    Location:
    WNY
    Thank you for your reply!
    They are basically in a direct line. The well itself is 20' from NEW service (new meter box and 200amp exterior grade main breaker panel).

    But because there WAS a cabin on the property, the tank is now 80' from the well (the tank is near the location of the camper/where cabin was). So do I relocate the tank and switch (and well house) closer to the well and only run the water line over to the camper?

    - is it desirable to wire a electrical service shut off inside the well house? Or just the breaker which will be 20' away?
    - can I also install an outlet on the outside of the well house using the same breaker (by way of a j-box) or is that breaker designated to just the well?

    I know I'm asking a lot of questions but I'm going there on Saturday/Sunday and would like to have some idea of what is feasible and what is not acceptable at all.. Ya know?....
    Last edited: Jun 20, 2013
  4. leejosepho

    leejosepho DIY scratch-pad engineer

    One of the plumbers here would have to say whether there is any advantage one way or the other, but I could see going either way there. The existing water line and wiring could be used to service the camper, so the only new wiring you would need would be from the panel to the pump house.

    Twenty feet would not be too far for me to go for flipping a breaker once or twice per year, but a disconnect switch could be a good idea there in the pump house.

    You should run a separate wire over for the outside outlet, and that outlet should be GFCI.

    Sure, and keep things simple. That panel you have on the pole is typical for mobile installations, and you have no great distances to deal with for access...and you can just flip the main breaker to shut things off while you are away. So, keep all the breakers there and bury conduit over to the new pump house or well house.
    Last edited: Jun 21, 2013
  5. kzaker

    kzaker New Member

    Messages:
    4
    Location:
    WNY
    Ok. So.. After spending the weekend there, what I believe I am going to do is:

    Dig up the wires that run from the pump to the current location of the tank, use them (and the conduit) to run the 20' (in the other direction) to the main panel...... I have a 4 location sub panel laying around, I will use a 2pole 15a breaker for the well pump and install an outlet to plug the pump into, thereby eliminating the code requirement for a service shutoff AND have enough room in the box for a single pole 15a to supply the exterior watertight (GFI?) outlet at the new tank location, grounding the sub to the well housing, isolating from the main.... (Does that sound right?)

    Since I will be trenching the old line out for reuse, I can lay 6/3 w ground UF (that happen to have 200' of) to the camper area (100' or so). This should give me 55Amps (if I remember correctly). I was told I can use a 2 pole 60 in the main, install a second sub panel there for the camper as well as electric tools and other outlets for another (guest) camper. I already have a ground rod at that location because that is where the main box was originally located..... With 55amps available there, would a 6 space exterior grade panel be sufficient? (You think?)

    Pump: Myers
    GPM: 8
    HP: 1/2
    VOLT: 230 PH1
    MAX AMP: 5.90
    PSI: 30-50

    Thanks again :) really appreciate it.
  6. sc_hoaty

    sc_hoaty New Member

    Messages:
    9
    Location:
    SC
    If it were me, I would not reuse the old wire you are planning on trenching out. I'm also leery about having the pump plug connected instead of hard wired with a shutoff.

    My concern with the reuse is that the insulation will have the usual nicks and gouges from installation, a few more from being trenched up, and then expected to perform like it is virgin stuff. So perhaps carefully examining it might determine if reuse is prudent or risky.

    My installation sounds a bit like yours - bladder tank and pressure switch located in my garage, with the well about 100 feet away. I have 12/3 UF going to the pump, and a 1" water line supplying water to the house and irrigation systems.

    For the guest camper, note that a 30 amp RV receptacle is a bit of an oddball to find. It took a bit of hunting before I found the one I installed for when my camper is parked at home.

    Also, some manufacturers make breakers with the GFCI built in - they are pricey, but convenient. Since not all breakers are interchangeable, be sure you procure ones that work with your panels.
  7. kzaker

    kzaker New Member

    Messages:
    4
    Location:
    WNY
    If it were me, I would not reuse the old wire you are planning on trenching out. I'm also leery about having the pump plug connected instead of hard wired with a shutoff.

    -----I suppose I could just use an AC disconnect and hard wire.

    My concern with the reuse is that the insulation will have the usual nicks and gouges from installation, a few more from being trenched up, and then expected to perform like it is virgin stuff. So perhaps carefully examining it might determine if reuse is prudent or risky.

    -------Again, I suppose 30' of wire won't kill me to purchase.. So far I have "re-used" everything for this project, trying to keep the pace going! Lol- I will check the wire when I dig it out, it is in conduit so there is a good chance of there being 30' out of the 100' that is reusable (I hope).

    My installation sounds a bit like yours - bladder tank and pressure switch located in my garage, with the well about 100 feet away. I have 12/3 UF going to the pump, and a 1" water line supplying water to the house and irrigation systems.

    For the guest camper, note that a 30 amp RV receptacle is a bit of an oddball to find. It took a bit of hunting before I found the one I installed for when my camper is parked at home.

    ------I happened to come across one at the box store and have had it waiting to go in. I'll use an adapter (and std 15a outlet) for guest campers, the RV outlet is for my camper (I leave it on the property year long an have no intention on trail trailering it anywhere- ever- :)

    Also, some manufacturers make breakers with the GFCI built in - they are pricey, but convenient. Since not all breakers are interchangeable, be sure you procure ones that work with your panels. [\QUOTE]

    -------if I happen to find aGFCI breaker for free as opposed to buying a GFCI outlet, I think that will be the most economical route for me. Since it will be a rarely used outlet (at the pump house), I think a protected breaker will exceed the need.


    I think I'm going to have to consult an electrician about the appropriate breaker size for the pump as well as the required wire size required to operate the well pump and additional outlet at the pump house. I believe #10 would be sufficient for 30a (exceeds needs for pump and outlet) at the end of the 20ish' run.

    I am certain that the 6/3 will be fine in the 100' run.
    Last edited: Jun 25, 2013
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