Help bring my well back from the dead..

Discussion in 'Pumps and Tanks Well Forum & Blog' started by barchetta, Jul 29, 2008.

  1. barchetta

    barchetta New Member

    Messages:
    8
    I bought a house and with it came an abandoned well. The motor would not run and the pump was full of rust and when I freed it the impeller came loose.. ie. it was junk.. I bought a new pump 3/4 hp and I cant get it to work.. it appears to be a jet type well.. what I mean is there is a pipe within a pipe (the main pipe is only 2-2.5" in diameter and there is another pipe within it.... the "head" has two holes for water.. a big one and a little one.. thus that is the type of pump I bought.

    I used gasket maker to make a gasket by smearing it on, letting it set and then smearing more on and tightening the two bolts.. When I went to prime the pump it took about 1 minute to fill the pipe.. I have a ball valve directly installed on the pump and the prime is above that... first time I ran it I got a little water out but since then.. nothing.. I have filled it a dozen times and it doesnt seem to prime. The water does seem to hold steady but when I close it up and turn it on and then reinspect it needs a quart or so of water again.. and that is with the ball valve closed.. the instruction say to fill it and then close the valve and let it build pressure.. of course mine never builds..

    so... what can I do? Unfortunately a large shed was built above the well.. so since my next step might be to remove the "jet" it could be trouble...

    at this point should I bring in a pro? and if so, who is a pro? I called a plumber and he had never even seen a well like mine..

    thanks
  2. speedbump

    speedbump Previous member

    Messages:
    4,540
    Location:
    Riverview, Fl.
    First of all, what Pump did you buy, what horsepower was it and what horsepower and brand was the old Pump?

    When priming, you need a backpressure control of somekind to get the Jet to operate. A ballvalve between the Pump and Tank can serve as a temporary control, but should be replaced with the real thing.

    You may not have the pipes filled yet, that is why the Pump keeps on needing another quart. Keep filling until full like you have been doing and it may take off. This is not an easy thing, so be patient.

    bob...
  3. barchetta

    barchetta New Member

    Messages:
    8
    The old pump was 1/2 hp. The new one is 3/4. Its a wayne pump.

    I just got thru a frustrating excersise. I connected my city water to the inlet of the pump and pressurized the whole system 5 times.. when I open the hose to release the pressure (the pressure switch shuts off the pump when I do this of course) the water runs out from the pressure and the pump doesnt even pump one drop (I verified this by removing power from the pump and saw the exact same amount of water come out)... I dont know what could possibly cause this.. the pump never strains either.. just runs even when I have it filled with water due to pressure from the city water..

    very frustrating.. I cant imagine a brand new pump is bad.. could the jet inside my well be causing this some how??
  4. speedbump

    speedbump Previous member

    Messages:
    4,540
    Location:
    Riverview, Fl.
    This is no way to check or prime a pump.

    Yes your jet could be plugged. It's very possible with an old well. It could also be that the 1/2hp you took off was more pump than the Wayne which is not a high quality pump. It may also be over rated at 3/4hp.

    Did you hook the 1-1/4" to the 1-1/4" and so forth? This is also very important. Does the Wayne have a backpressure control?

    bob...
  5. barchetta

    barchetta New Member

    Messages:
    8
    You think my 3/4 hp is less output than the 1/2hp? thats shocking.

    Yes, the big hole is connected to the big hole and the small the small.. LOL.. Im a little slow, but not that slow..

    THe thing that sucks is that in order to get the jet out I have to cut away structure on the building that was built over it.. what a joke this project has been.
  6. speedbump

    speedbump Previous member

    Messages:
    4,540
    Location:
    Riverview, Fl.
    I have Pool Pumps that come in here with Stickers on them claiming they are 4 horsepower. I replace them with the same size motor which is a 3/4hp and the people don't know the difference. It's called false advertising and a lot of advertisers are getting away with it these days.

    bob...
  7. WV Hillbilly

    WV Hillbilly New Member

    Messages:
    178
    Location:
    WV
    Interesting

    If I follow you correctly there is a 2 or 2 1/2 inch pipe that is in effect the well casing . Inside this pipe is a smaller pipe . If this is not set up for a single pipe shallow well pump how does the jet connect to the bottom of both pipes & how would you pull the jet out ? If the inside pipe is just hanging there with a foot valve on it you could pull it , cutting it off as you pull it up instead of tearing up your building . Replace it with plastic pipe . I don't think I have ever seen a well such as you are describing either . Then again there's lots of things I've never seen . Really curious so I hope someone explains this situation .
  8. barchetta

    barchetta New Member

    Messages:
    8
    Here.. mine is the double jet setup... maybe this will help you help me!

    http://www.popularmechanics.com/home_journal/how_your_house_works/1275136.html?page=3
  9. WV Hillbilly

    WV Hillbilly New Member

    Messages:
    178
    Location:
    WV
    Pump problems

    I checked the link you provided . I am familiar with the 2 pipe jet set-up as pictured in that link . You have a larger casing with a seal in the top with two holes in the seal , one larger than the other ? Is the pipe going down the well galvanized ? Priming a pump can sometimes be very frustrating & take numerous tries . Also your description of the condition of the old pump leads one to believe the well hasn't been used in a very long time . It's very possible the jet isn't working properly . If the pump is sucking air from anywhere it's almost impossible to get it primed & working . Since the original pump was 1/2 HP I wouldn't think that that the well is all that deep but offhand I don't know how deep a 1/2 HP jet pump will pump water . An internet search shoud clarify that if someone doesn't jump in here & answer that question . If it was me I think after numerous tries at getting it to prime & failing I would pull the pipes & install new pipes & jet . I would cut the pipe as I pulled it & reinstall plastic . I am assuming the existing pipe is galvanized . A sawszall with a metal cutting blade would make short work of cutting the metal pipe . If you go this route be sure to keep the pipe securely tied off under your cuts so you don't drop the pipe down the well .
    Before I went much farther I would loosen the bolts in the seal & lift the seal & pipes enough to set them to one side of the casing & measure the depth of the well & the water depth in the well to make sure the well is worth investing more money in . Just loosen the bolts in the seal a little at a time & tap the head of the bolts with a hammer untill the seal loosens enough to remove . If you loosen the bolts to much you will lose parts down the well . If your well doesn't have a larger casing with a seal in the top as shown in the link you gave me forget most of what I've said . I would still try priming some more & make sure the pump isn't sucking air before I gave up & took more drastic measures .
    If a pro jumps in here & tells you I'm full of it , believe them .
  10. barchetta

    barchetta New Member

    Messages:
    8
    Here is a pic of the head.. I removed the bolts that hold the triangle shapped flange on but I cant get the head off.. could it be threaded on somehow?

    Attached Files:

  11. WV Hillbilly

    WV Hillbilly New Member

    Messages:
    178
    Location:
    WV
    Well Head

    So you don't have a larger casing with a seal with two pipes going through the seal & down the well . I also see what you mean about the shed being built over the well . I was thinking the well head was inside the shed instead of under the floor of the shed . I've never seen a well head like that .
    Looks like the only way to pull that would be to cut a hole in the floor of the shed & pull it from inside the shed . I would think that removing the bolts out of the triangle flanges would have let them come apart . Did you try tapping on it with a hammer after removing the bolts ? It may be rusted together . I wonder if you dug down a little ways if you would find the head pictured is connected to a larger casing . Like I said I've never seen anything like that either . Surely someone on here has . I think I'm going to do some internet searches & see if I can find anything . Please keep posting as you go , I'm more curious than ever . Sorry I wasn't any help . By the way I suppose that could be threaded . If you have a couple pipe wrenches you could try turning the top flange & holding the bottom one . I wouldn't have thought that it would be screwed & bolted both though .
    Last edited: Aug 2, 2008
  12. barchetta

    barchetta New Member

    Messages:
    8
    Thats ok... yeah I tried beating it pretty good.. in fact I got on it with a hydraulic jack! It wont budge at all.. I wanted to remove it. It does move side to side however...

    Here is a pic of the old pump...

    Attached Files:

  13. barchetta

    barchetta New Member

    Messages:
    8
    One more picture...

    Attached Files:

  14. WV Hillbilly

    WV Hillbilly New Member

    Messages:
    178
    Location:
    WV
    Hope this helps

    I think I've found what you have . The head is a deep well packer adapter head . I googled ( How to install deep well packer adapter head ) .
    Several links came up describing this type of well . The 2nd link down
    Jet Pumps Jet Pumps has some interesting info on packer type wells .
    There are more links but I didn't take time to check them out yet .
    Interestingly enough I found the packer adapter head on lowes home
    improvement website .
  15. speedbump

    speedbump Previous member

    Messages:
    4,540
    Location:
    Riverview, Fl.
    You do have a 2" Packer Jet. It has two cup leathers on it which have long since been glued to the casing with the same iron you see in the suction and discharge of the old pump. This iron is also on all the droppipe down the well and on the casing from Jet to Casing adaptor.

    If you really want to get the Jet out of the well, first turn the Casing Adaptor clockwise to loosen the Leathers. Keep turning until it keeps giving the same amount of resistance. Then try lifting it. It's not going to just come right out and it's going to catch at every joint in the pipe as it comes out. A jack is a bad idea, it will push up on an angle which will break the threads under the Casing Adaptor and it will become a guided missle. I wouldn't be standing there when it breaks.

    The things are usually pulled with a Pump Hoist like myself and some others have for just this purpose. They have the ability of pulling around 5000 lbs straight up and most of the time won't even budge the jet until the pipe is unscrewed somewhere down the well. Then we go in with a set of Jars which are like a ding puller, in that they can be moved up and down about 3' rapidly by the use of a walking beam on the rig that can give a hammering effect on the Jet.

    With the amount of rust I saw on your pump, this is not going to be much fun.

    Good luck,

    bob...
  16. barchetta

    barchetta New Member

    Messages:
    8
    I gave up and returned the pump to Lowes.. Im going to call in a pro and see what this might cost.. this is obviously beyond my abilities.. thanks for the EXTREMELY informative post.. its pretty much what I feared.. I think that the well is likely dry as well.. I just was hoping I guess...
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