Health / perfomance concerns with using HVAC (ACR) / refrigeration soft copper for residential potable water?

[herynkc]

I got a quote from our local supply house today of over $2000 for 200ft of 3/4 type L soft copper.
3/4" Type L has a .045" wall thickness, with a 7/8" OD. My understanding is that plumbing copper uses alloy C12200.

The ACR tubing Im looking at is also alloy C12200, and if you buy 7/8" you are getting the same dimension as that which is sold as 3/4" nominal for plumbing. The wall thickness on the ACR is also .045"
Is there any health or performance reason why you shouldn't use this ACR tubing in place of the typical stuff sold for plumbing?

Here is the product I am considering:

7/8 x 50 FT Mueller Soft Copper Tubing HVAC Refrigeration 7/8 OD * MADE IN USA * | eBay

Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for 7/8 x 50 FT Mueller Soft Copper Tubing HVAC Refrigeration 7/8 OD * MADE IN USA * at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!

www.ebay.com

Using the ACR would be over a 50% discount from my supply house.

The only real difference I can find is that the ACR is dried and then primed with nitrogen gas and capped to prevent internal oxide formation. That being said, I could only see an issue using the plumbing tube for HVAC work, BUT I see no issue with using the ACR tube for plumbing. Can anyone confirm?

 

[WorthFlorida]

I know nothing about copper formulas, however, HVAC copper for central air system has different dimensions than plumbing copper. Also, HVAC works under much higher pressures and HVAC connections/fittings take much higher temperature for brazing where it does not lose its annealing properties.

Go to HD and they sell both. You notice the refrigerant tubing is much bright in color than water pipe copper.

If your project is for water, get the tubing for water. I could not find copper pipe 7/8 diameter.

 

[Sponsor]

 

[herynkc]

I know nothing about copper formulas, however, HVAC copper for central air system has different dimensions than plumbing copper. Also, HVAC works under much higher pressures and HVAC connections/fittings take much higher temperature for brazing where it does not lose its annealing properties.

Go to HD and they sell both. You notice the refrigerant tubing is much bright in color than water pipe copper.

If your project is for water, get the tubing for water. I could not find copper pipe 7/8 diameter.

Dimensions are the same just the labeling differs; as stated type L plumbing tube in 3/4" nominal is equivalent to 7/8" actual in hvac tube. In these particular size comparisons there is no difference in either the OD or the ID as the wall size is consistent.

compare these two for example:

Item # D 14050, Dehydrated Coil, 7/8" OD x 50' On Mueller Industries Inc.

Browse Item # D 14050, Dehydrated Coil, 7/8" OD x 50' in the Mueller Industries Inc. catalog including Item #,Item Name,Description,Type,Standards,Weight,Material,Operating Temperature,Operating Pressure,Item Size,HVACR (OD) Size,Length,Style,Qty Pcs

streamlineproductinfo.muellerstreamline.com

Item # LS06060, Plumbing Water Tube, 3/4" x 60' On Mueller Industries Inc.

Browse Item # LS06060, Plumbing Water Tube, 3/4" x 60' in the Mueller Industries Inc. catalog including Item #,Item Name,Description,Type,Standards,Weight,Material,Operating Temperature,Operating Pressure,Item Size,Plumbing (Nominal) Size,HVACR (OD)

streamlineproductinfo.muellerstreamline.com

same product as far as I can tell, likely just different spec markings on them

 

[Fitter30]

Two differences between acr and L copper is acr is cleaned ,dried and capped. And size. Acr is L thickness is measured by o.d. L and M is i.d.
3/4" L is 7/8" acr
1/2" L is 5/8" acr
3/8" L is 3/8" acr
1/4" L is 1/4" acr
There is other sizes of acr
1/2" o.d.
3/4" o.d.
1 1/8" o.d. = 1" L
Fittings acr long radius
Plumbers use i.d.
Fitters and hvac use o.d.
Used acr many times for plumbing . Acr is usually higher in cost than L because of the cleaned,dried and capped.

 

[Kreemoweet]

Soft copper is miserable to work with, unless you just need a few short lengths with flared ends.
It comes in coils, and is difficult to get any kind of straight without kinking. You will need big tubing
benders and know how to use them, you can't just bend it by hand. It is also ovaled out by
the coiling process, so is difficult to use with standard copper tubing fittings. Usually soft copper is
joined with flare fittings, and the flaring tools don't much care about the out-of-roundness, but
the copper tube fitting sure do. When I was doing copper plumbing, soft was way more expensive
per foot than the 10' or 20' sticks.

 

[Jeff H Young]

I think we used refer tube for icemaker and dish washer lines Makes sence that its ok for potable but Id concider researhing it maybe with CDA Im not sure good to ask here but Id check else where too

 

[herynkc]

Soft copper is miserable to work with, unless you just need a few short lengths with flared ends.
It comes in coils, and is difficult to get any kind of straight without kinking. You will need big tubing
benders and know how to use them, you can't just bend it by hand. It is also ovaled out by
the coiling process, so is difficult to use with standard copper tubing fittings. Usually soft copper is
joined with flare fittings, and the flaring tools don't much care about the out-of-roundness, but
the copper tube fitting sure do. When I was doing copper plumbing, soft was way more expensive
per foot than the 10' or 20' sticks.

We have a tube straightener, a Rothenberger robend 4000, and a swageing/rerounding tool. Should not be an issue to manage. The pipe needs to get inserted up into a 2x6 joist bay perpendicular to the joists. We are not permitted to run it on the surface, so theres really no other choice. It will be a fun job... (sarcasm).

 

[herynkc]

Two differences between acr and L copper is acr is cleaned ,dried and capped. And size. Acr is L thickness is measured by o.d. L and M is i.d.
3/4" L is 7/8" acr
1/2" L is 5/8" acr
3/8" L is 3/8" acr
1/4" L is 1/4" acr
There is other sizes of acr
1/2" o.d.
3/4" o.d.
1 1/8" o.d. = 1" L
Fittings acr long radius
Plumbers use i.d.
Fitters and hvac use o.d.
Used acr many times for plumbing . Acr is usually higher in cost than L because of the cleaned,dried and capped.

Yeah it makes absolutely no sense that acr would be cheaper than plumbing pipe given the additional cleaning capping etc, For whatever reason right now it is less than half the cost! Im not sure if thats a supply chain issue or what?

 

[herynkc]

I think we used refer tube for icemaker and dish washer lines Makes sence that its ok for potable but Id concider researhing it maybe with CDA Im not sure good to ask here but Id check else where too

I searched the web pretty thoroughly, and have yet to find an article, post, or video that says acr should not be used for plumbing. Plenty of folks out there have mentioned that they do it without issue, so I reckon its OK. Just figured I'd ask on here to see what the consensus view was.

 

[Jeff H Young]

I searched the web pretty thoroughly, and have yet to find an article, post, or video that says acr should not be used for plumbing. Plenty of folks out there have mentioned that they do it without issue, so I reckon its OK. Just figured I'd ask on here to see what the consensus view was.

I belive you but you need to use approved material and I havent had it confirmed by an authority that ACR is approved.
An example would be unmarked pipe for any use in a plumbing system isnt legal . You go to china or wherever buy something that looks like copper and call it potable pretty sure it has to have a upc stamp and aprproved for the purpose. even cast iron drain pipe needs the stamp or its not legal

 

[Fitter30]

Refrigerant copper vs plumbing copper? - HVAC-Talk: Heating, Air
hvac-talk.com › vbb › threads › 217884...

 

[Jeff H Young]

Refrigerant copper vs plumbing copper? - HVAC-Talk: Heating, Air
hvac-talk.com › vbb › threads › 217884...

I see one guy on there says ACR is marked type L as well if true I think that would make it legal for plumbing . but again Im not swearing its legal . small details can make big differance on inspections but no one ever checked my copper that I remember

 

[John Gayewski]

Copper is copper. It's fine to use any copper. Refer copper is L