Head Scratching Toilet Flush Problem - Already replaced toilet

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JustNutsandBolts

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Some facts:

Bought this house recently. Problem has been there since the beginning.

- Toilet bowl would try to fill but empty then gurgle when it reached as low as it could go.
- When flushed, water would rush into the bowl from the lower jet but would not flush down the drain.
- I decided to replace the toilet with an American Standard Cadet3 1.28 gallon chair height and it is still doing the same thing

- I poured a 5 gal bucket of water down the old toilet before removing the old one and it flushes really well that way.
- When I pulled the old toilet there was standing water in the line about 2-3" below the flange.

- Last night my master toilet on the same level got clogged and this caused the problem toilet to clog as well (same drain line). I used a plunger on the master toilet and the water in the problem toilet bowl went down as well.

- My master toilet flushes and fills the bowl fine.
- I went on the roof with a hose and poured water down the vent stack, it went down fine.


What is going on here? Is the plumbing wrong?
I don't think there should be standing water in the drain line.

There is standing water in the vent, so I will try snaking it from the roof tomorrow.

Is there anything else I should be doing? I poured boiling hot water down the toilet and it did not help.


I pulled the toilet (which i hate by the way American Standard 1.28 gallon Cadet 3 = will be returning this junk)

Anyway I snaked the line and cleared it, although it did not feel like a terrible clog, one or two forward motions and it was clear.

Get this, there is a trap in the waste line, and I think the toilet cannot flush fast enough because of this.

I still have standing water there.



UPDATE:

Ok made a hole in the ceiling.
The grading is the culprit here.

Some (or most) of the water (and waste) potentially roll backwards to this toilet and that is the water I see when I pull the toilet.

I snaked the heck out of the line hoping it would clear but nothing.
I pumped all the water out of the line then went to the master, flushed and some of the water came back to this problem toilet.

My vent is in the middle of both.
Calling the plumber so he can come re-plumb this mess.


LAST UPDATE:

Cut the pipes, fixed the grading, put fernco in between old and new (had to) , bam it's fixed...

Plumber had to take the master toilet (closest to the 90 elbow going down) out to redo the angles.

$1000 cash job (neighbor's uncle) = well discounted
He said normally it'd cost $1800 but would charge me $1200.
But took the $1000 cash.

ROTO-ROOTER quoted an estimate of $2000 + material = wow

I could have fixed this myself with extra set of hands for <$100 in material if I had the time.

OH well.
 
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You have a clogged main.

There should be NO standing water in any pipes of your home. "Trapped" water in the flange is a big alarm.

Gravity and grade is supposed to take all greywater to the street sewage.

No chemicals will work here. You need a MECHANICAL auger, and most likely the 50 ft. one.

I would snake it from the lowest cleanout in the basement floor first, then work your way up to other cleanouts and flanges.

Toilets must be removed to snake from flanges.
 

JustNutsandBolts

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Why would this be the only toilet acting this way?
I have 1 more on this floor and 1 downstairs that work fine.

All other drains work good as well.



This toilet is probably the closest to the vent stack
 

Jadnashua

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The vent isn't a major part of how well a toilet flushes or a sink drains. If everything else seems to be working properly, the clog is likely limited to the line from that toilet. It isn't a total clog since waste seems to slowly pass by it. The likely reason the other one gave you problems is that whatever is on that line had been used faster than the clog below could drain it away, and the line filled up.

No toilet will flush properly with the drain line full.
 

Smooky

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I'd take the toilet up and snake it through the drain . While you have it up be sure to check the trap in the toilet for an obstruction.
 

JustNutsandBolts

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UPDATE:
I pulled the toilet (which i hate by the way American Standard 1.28 gallon Cadet 3 = will be returning this junk)

Anyway I snaked the line and cleared it, although it did not feel like a terrible clog, one or two forward motions and it was clear.

Get this, there is a trap in the waste line, and I think the toilet cannot flush fast enough because of this.
I still have standing water there.

I need to rip down walls to remove the trap but that's after I hit the lottery.
 
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A trap in the floor is only for a shower.

Perhaps at time of construction, someone was thinking of putting a shower there.

It would be both useless and a performance hinderance if a toilet was on top of a trapped flange.

Toilets have their own built-in trap.
 

Jadnashua

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No fixture works when going through a double trap. ANd, unless that pipe is at least 3" all the way to a bigger one, it won't work well, either. While remotely possible, if it's a 3" pipe and trap, it probably was NOT installed for a shower. Standing water in a drain pipe other than in a p-trap is a big red flag for a problem, too. The reason a toilet flushes, is that once the water gets moving, it literally pulls the rest out of the bowl. If something slows it down, it won't work. A double trap will do that as well as a partial or full clog or a belly that leaves standing water there to slow things down or stop it.

No toilet will work well through a double-trap.
 

Reach4

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Get this, there is a trap in the waste line, and I think the toilet cannot flush fast enough because of this.
I still have standing water there.

How long does the water take to get to the same level as when you started the video? It looked to me as if the pipe was taking the water somewhat slowly, but it did not seem that clear in the video.

When the water is settled and you stick a stick into the water, how deep into water does the stick go?
 
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JustNutsandBolts

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It goes down as I pour.


Water gets sucked out of the toilet bowl.
It does this 9/10 times.

After a flush with big waste, it stops flushing correctly.
I've dumped at least 5x10 gallons of hot water and went on top of the roof with a hose once...no fixes yet.

I still think there's a trap there but the other toilet that is on the other side of the wall works ok, so I do not know where the trap would be. I will pull off the sheetrock and see this weekend.

One thing I noticed is that when I dump 5 gallons down, the other toilet water level from the bowl drops as well.
 
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Reach4

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I still think there's a trap there but the other toilet that is on the other side of the wall works ok, so I do not know where the trap would be. I will pull off the sheetrock and see this weekend.
Pulling sheetrock only makes sense if there is a basement under the toilets. So if that is the case, good idea.
 

Reach4

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I still think there's a trap there but the other toilet that is on the other side of the wall works ok, so I do not know where the trap would be. I will pull off the sheetrock and see this weekend.
Pulling sheetrock makes sense if the sheetrock is in the basement under the toilets. So if that is the case, good idea.
 

JustNutsandBolts

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Both toilets are on the 2nd floor. I should also mention they appear to be "back to back" ( CORRECTION, they are not plumbed back to back.. see post #16 https://terrylove.com/forums/index....em-already-replaced-toilet.63650/#post-473282 )



The wall that needs to come out is the laundry room so I am not too worried about the mess.

Should I pour down $30 worth of Drano down the vent stack?

There should not be any water standing there in the elbow.
 
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JustNutsandBolts

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UPDATE:

Ok made a hole in the ceiling.
The grading is the culprit here.

Some (or most) of the water (and waste) potentially roll backwards to this toilet and that is the water I see when I pull the toilet.

I snaked the heck out of the line hoping it would clear but nothing.
I pumped all the water out of the line then went to the master, flushed and some of the water came back to this problem toilet.

My vent is in the middle of both.
Calling the plumber so he can come re-plumb this mess.
 
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Jadnashua

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Gravity will do that! The installation should not have passed a plumbing inspection if it did not have the proper slope. Sometimes, the builder is too cozy with the inspectors and they overlook things. IMHO, it's criminal, but it happens. THen, the install may not have had the benefit of an inspection or a competent plumber!
 

JustNutsandBolts

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The house was unoccupied for 3 years.
When it was de-winterized it had leaks so a contractor (not sure if a plumber) from the bank replaced the ABS pipes. He says he did not change anything, just replaced what was bad but I don't know if I want to believe it.

I also saw drywall screws in the vertical pipe.

Nor did I or my inspector noticed this issue on the inspection day. I flushed once or twice and I'm sure he flushed too but we did not get lucky (From now on I am flushing at least 10 times during my future home inspections)
 

Jadnashua

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A home inspection may not have discovered this...they don't typically poke holes to look behind the drywall. But, a plumbing inspector SHOULD have caught problems checking on the replacements. Screws into the pipes is just poor workmanship and maybe not just from the drywall crew...nail plates may have been called for which would have prevented them from putting screws into the pipe, or at least should.
 
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