Hard wired 220v GFCI Questions

Discussion in 'Electrical Forum discussion & Blog' started by JerryR, Jun 2, 2014.

  1. JerryR

    JerryR Member

    Messages:
    252
    Location:
    Florida
    What is the current code regarding the following related to requiring GFCI Protection.


    50 gal Water heater, hard wired to 30a 220v
    1 1/2 HP Pool pump, hard wired to 20a 220v (in ground pool)
    5 ton, Pool heat pump, hard wired to 50a 220v (in ground pool)
    Last edited: Jun 2, 2014
  2. Stuff

    Stuff Member

    Messages:
    53
    Location:
    Pennsylvania
    Looks like No, Yes, No.

    Florida is on 2008 NEC unless you have additional local requirements.

    680.22
    (B) GFCI Protection. Outlets supplying pool pump motors
    from branch circuits with short-circuit and ground-fault
    protection rated 15 or 20 amperes, 125 volt or 240 volt,
    single phase, whether by receptacle or direct connection,
    shall be provided with ground-fault circuit-interrupter protection
    for personnel.
    Last edited: Jun 3, 2014
  3. JerryR

    JerryR Member

    Messages:
    252
    Location:
    Florida
    Follow up question.

    In ground a Gunite Concrete Pool was constructed in 1997 when code did not require a GFCI for the pump motor.

    Is it worthwhile and cost effective to replace the pump breaker with a $110 GFCI breaker? (20 amp dual pole, Square D QO)

    Actually I just realized I would need to replace 2 breakers as the Jet Pump for the spa is also on a standard 20a breaker.

    What is the consensus of members?
    Is a GFCI overkill?
    What risk is there of nuisance tripping? This I a concern because we are gone for 7-10 days sometimes.

    I think know what I probably will do.

    The pool and pool equipment are all properly bonded.
    Last edited: Jun 4, 2014
  4. Stuff

    Stuff Member

    Messages:
    53
    Location:
    Pennsylvania
    Wasn't required in 1997. Code started in 2008 for hard-wired pumps.

    Yes, there is increased risk of nuisance tripping if bad motor. Otherwise one less chance of electrocution.

    Proper bonding gives a better route for current to flow/easier for a breaker to trip.
  5. Speedy Petey

    Speedy Petey Licensed Electrical Contractor

    Messages:
    996
    Location:
    NY State, USA
    No
    Yes
    YES. A pool heater heat pump is still a motor associated with the pool. GFI protection required.
  6. JerryR

    JerryR Member

    Messages:
    252
    Location:
    Florida
    This is confusing. That's why I posted my question. I don't know how pros keep up with this stuff.

    Florida is on 2008 NEC code. Look at this link from NEMA.org.
    http://www.nema.org/Technical/Code-Alerts/Pages/Code-Alert-Florida-28-September-2009.aspx

    From what read 680.22(B) states GFCI required for 120 240v 15-20 amp pump motors. Heater is on a 50 amp breaker. Wouldn't that exclude this heat pump from requiring a GFCI breaker?

    Even so, according to the NEMA link, Florida adopted 2008 code but excluded 680.22(B) requirement for GFCI for single and double family residences even with 15a and 20a pumps.
    Last edited: Jun 5, 2014
  7. hj

    hj Moderator & Master Plumber Staff Member

    Messages:
    27,038
    Location:
    Cave Creek, Arizona
    YOu can do what you want to, but I personally would NEVER connect a "necessary" motor such as a refrigerator/freezer, pool pump, etc., to a GFCI, which could "nuisance" trip and cause possible irreparable damages.
  8. jadnashua

    jadnashua Retired Defense Industry Engineer xxx

    Messages:
    22,262
    Location:
    New England
    Loss of life is not irreparable damages? Much safer to lose some food than your life...
  9. Speedy Petey

    Speedy Petey Licensed Electrical Contractor

    Messages:
    996
    Location:
    NY State, USA
    You CANNOT be serious!
    With as much good as I have seen posted from you over the years I cannot believe you posted this.
  10. JerryR

    JerryR Member

    Messages:
    252
    Location:
    Florida
    It seems that Florida Building Commission agrees with HJ. They adopted the 2008 NEC code but exempt GFCI on residential pools. (one and two family dwellings)
    http://www.floridapoolpro.com/indus...es/FL Building Commission adopts 2008 NEC.pdf

    They felt that GFCI "would not have provided any additional benefit. Rather requiring GFCI would have caused nuisance trips on the pool pump, increasing safety and health issues as pools would not be circulating"

    And then there is this from NEMA
    http://www.nema.org/Technical/Code-Alerts/Pages/Code-Alert-Florida-28-September-2009.aspx
    Last edited: Jun 6, 2014
  11. jwelectric

    jwelectric Electrical Contractor/Instructor

    Messages:
    2,559
    Location:
    North Carolina
    do research to find out that Florida has more pool shocks than all the other states added together.



    In my opinion everything should be GFCI protected, come to my house and you will see
  12. Speedy Petey

    Speedy Petey Licensed Electrical Contractor

    Messages:
    996
    Location:
    NY State, USA
    The LAST thing I would do is use the state of Florida as an example of quality electrical work.
  13. jadnashua

    jadnashua Retired Defense Industry Engineer xxx

    Messages:
    22,262
    Location:
    New England
    FL seems to allow you to build a shower without a liner...just weeps into the sand beneath the foundation and provides moisture for the termites and invites tree roots into your home! The rest of the country requires a sloped liner to the drain. If you search around, you'll find lots of pictures of torn out showers with rotten wood, encased in roots, and other issues...I agree, FL is not a good example for the building trades and practices.
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