H2S, carbon and air input needed

Discussion in 'Water Softener Forum, problems, installation and r' started by MagKarl, Sep 21, 2012.

  1. ditttohead

    ditttohead Water systems designer, R&D

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    Backwash and rinse times are fine. Frequency may be a little often, but... it is up to you. H2S is relatively easy for GAC to remove, and if there is no sediment, you can probably backwash it less frequently. Weekly is usually fine.

    Congrats on solving yor water problem!
  2. MagKarl

    MagKarl New Member

    Messages:
    37
    Location:
    Washington
    Thanks for your input DH. The carbon is downstream of a sediment filter and my softener, so should not see sediment unless the softener malfunctions and starts passing resin.
  3. Mikey

    Mikey Aspiring Old Fart, EE, computer & networking geek

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    Finally found some Fleck 40922 baskets, and have started reloading and reconfiguring my system. Have cleaned out the contact tank, which was a lot uglier than I'd thought. Then set up a spare 10x54 tank with 1.5 cu ft Centaur carbon, which seems to take up a lot more room than I thought it would. After dumping the two 0.75 cu ft bags into the tank, the top of the carbon bed is only about 10" from the top of the tank -- does this sound right? Also, my 2510 valve does not have a top basket on it, but a lot of sites recommend it for a 7000 system, anyway. Is it important, and will the 2510 accept one?
  4. ditttohead

    ditttohead Water systems designer, R&D

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    Location:
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    10" is a little high but it should be fine. The top basket is used to keep the media from leaving the top of the tank during backwash (primarily due to colder water), to distribute the water for more consistent flow through the media, and to prevent media from getting into the valve during shipping. Many companies dont put a top screen into their iron removal systems since the screens tend to foul up very quickly. A top screen is not necessary most of the time, but most companies put them in since their cost is very low, and it prevents damage to the valve during shipping (if the system gets laid on its side).

    You should be ok, but watch the backwash water to make sure you dont lose too much GAC during backwash. A few fines is normal. Also, once the GAC tank is full, fill it with water and let it soak for a couple days prior to backwashing to lessen the startup difficulties.
  5. Mikey

    Mikey Aspiring Old Fart, EE, computer & networking geek

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    Thanks; I suspect that the carbon will settle a little once it gets soaked as well. Is there a particular p/n for a 2510 top basket?

    Update: Found part #TDB1050-BS, now wondering why I bothered with the high-flow 40922 bottom basket if there's a low-flow top basket in there. Probably not a factor considering my 10gpm maximum flow...
    Last edited: Feb 12, 2013
  6. ditttohead

    ditttohead Water systems designer, R&D

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    Location:
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    Actually, the 40922 bottom screen is important for durability more than flow rate. It is a nearly fail proof design. If you have ever had to deal with a failed bottom screen in a hotel, you will never go cheap on a bottom screen again.
    Last edited: Feb 12, 2013
  7. Mikey

    Mikey Aspiring Old Fart, EE, computer & networking geek

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    Well, I hope I never have to do that. I filled up the new carbon tank to let it soak for a couple of days, and got to wondering why I couldn't flow water through it via the distributor tube, and just letting the outflow run down the outside of the tank, getting most of the fines out of the bed that way? And, for that matter, when I do the softener, why couldn't I simulate a regeneration and wash/rinse the same way? It's a little easier for me to do something like that and only have to go through one cycle when I actually install the newly-bedded tanks into the system.
  8. MagKarl

    MagKarl New Member

    Messages:
    37
    Location:
    Washington
    So after 6 or so months of use, we're starting to get a little bit of swampy smell/taste to our water again. I need some help with suggestions on what I can do to determine the cause.

    To recap, my system is a cartridge particulate filter, followed by a 1.5cf softener treating ~7grains hardness and ~1ppm iron, followed by 2cf centaur carbon treating for H2S taste and smell. Carbon is being backwashed weekly, 10 min BW and RR. DLFC is 7gpm if I remember right, 12" tank. Worked great until the last couple weeks, it's been a whiff here and there, not consistent, but both my wife and I have noticed it and seems to be getting worse.

    Is it possible the carbon is already used up? Or is it more likely contaminated? I've had no obvious signs of bacterial troubles in my other equipment or fixtures.

    Should I pull the head and dig around in the media with a stick? Can I sanitize it with bleach? Should I backwash more often, or more aggressively?
  9. MagKarl

    MagKarl New Member

    Messages:
    37
    Location:
    Washington
    So after 6 or so months of use, we're starting to get a little bit of swampy smell/taste to our water again. I need some help with suggestions on what I can do to determine the cause.

    To recap, my system is a cartridge particulate filter, followed by a 1.5cf softener treating ~7grains hardness and ~1ppm iron, followed by 2cf centaur carbon treating for H2S taste and smell. Carbon is being backwashed weekly, 10 min BW and RR. DLFC is 7gpm if I remember right, 12" tank. Worked great until the last couple weeks, it's been a whiff here and there, not consistent, but both my wife and I have noticed it and seems to be getting worse.

    Is it possible the carbon is already used up? Or is it more likely contaminated? I've had no obvious signs of bacterial troubles in my other equipment or fixtures.

    Should I pull the head and dig around in the media with a stick? Can I sanitize it with bleach? Should I backwash more often, or more aggressively?
  10. Mikey

    Mikey Aspiring Old Fart, EE, computer & networking geek

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    I'm a little suspicious of not chlorinating well water before GAC and softening; I don't see anything to kill the swamp critters. But I'm no expert...
  11. MagKarl

    MagKarl New Member

    Messages:
    37
    Location:
    Washington
    Certainly a valid concern Mikey, and exactly what I'm hoping to figure out. I'd much rather add a chlorination stage than replace the carbon every 6 months, I need the right long term solution.
  12. lifespeed

    lifespeed Member

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    320
    Location:
    California
    Shouldn't the carbon precede the softener? Without a chlorinated supply, it would be nice to use a softener valve on the carbon to clean it with bleach occasionally.
  13. Mikey

    Mikey Aspiring Old Fart, EE, computer & networking geek

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    Yes; usual sequence is Chlorination->GAC->Softener. Interesting idea about "regenerating" the carbon with chlorine; I'm not knowledgeable enough to pass judgment on that.
  14. MagKarl

    MagKarl New Member

    Messages:
    37
    Location:
    Washington
    I decided to attempt sanitizing the carbon to see if that made an improvement and it did. Not 100%, but better. Also checked one of the toilet tanks and found a thin layer of clear slime, so I'm pretty sure that bacterial growth is either partly responsible for the taste/odor and/or clogging up the carbon preventing it from being as effective.

    So my direction now is chlorine injection. Solves any bacterial problem and knocks out iron and H2S. I'll add a pump, solution tank, contact tank, then run to the carbon and finally the softener.

    How noisy is the chemilizer? Hard decision because it's so much less expensive than a Stennar and flow switch. I am looking at the 1:500 model specifically.

    Any input on 120 gallon contact tank design? Well-mate, Clack, mixing, etc?

    Once down this path, I won't need catalytic carbon for H2S, do all carbon types remove the chlorine equally well?
  15. Mikey

    Mikey Aspiring Old Fart, EE, computer & networking geek

    Messages:
    2,713
    Location:
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    Don't know about the Chemilizer, but a neighbor has a Stenner pump and it seems quite quiet. I've got a Pulsafeeder, and it makes a racket.

    I would not recommend a steel retention/contact tank -- too hard to keep clean via periodic draining. The Polyglass/Fiberglas tanks usually have a round bottom and a drain that's very effective. There's also a smaller but claimed equally-effective tank that uses a special mixing chamber you might consider; discussion at http://www.terrylove.com/forums/sho...quot-x60-quot-Retention-Tank-Good-stuff-or-BS. I've got one, and will be installing it shortly as part of a major reconfiguration of my system. Long discussion of carbon filters at http://www.terrylove.com/forums/showthread.php?49445-Centaur-Carbon-Filter-s.
  16. MagKarl

    MagKarl New Member

    Messages:
    37
    Location:
    Washington
    I found this video of a chemilizer, I think this may be a bit too noisy for my garage. Dittohead, is this typical?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bxZOtelSJv8

    yes I'll get a fiberglass tank, mainly interested in any pros/cons to the different versions like top/bottom in/out of Clack and Well-mate. Not sure why I'd need one with in/out on top and bypass valve, etc. What's the blow down process? Neck it down to a garden hose and run it outside?

    For proportional control of a stennar I think I need a fixed rate pump, a pump control module, and a flow meter. Correct?
  17. Mikey

    Mikey Aspiring Old Fart, EE, computer & networking geek

    Messages:
    2,713
    Location:
    Central Florida
    The way they've mounted that Chemilizer pretty-much guarantees it'll be loud. I think it could be made quieter, but probably not quiet.

    The simple blowdown process is you just open the valve on the blowdown line periodically and drain until clear. There are timer-controlled valves available, and you could probably go crazy and control it by analyzing the water somehow to determine when it needs to be blowed down and activate the valve. Simple works pretty good, though. The blowdown on my swirly tank is 3/4", so no necking down required -- just put a standard male hose thread adapter on the outlet.

    Here's Stenner's advice on proportional control -- http://www.stenner.com/prod-pcm.htm -- but I don't know of any local homowners going to all that trouble. They usually just connect the pump in parallel with the well pump, but I don't think that's optimal -- depends on the injection point, though. Most use a translucent barrel of some kind for the chlorine solution, with the pump sitting on top of it, but there's a very nice pump and barrel system available from Stenner: http://www.stennerpumps.ca/prod-tanksys.htm.
  18. ditttohead

    ditttohead Water systems designer, R&D

    Messages:
    1,791
    Location:
    Ontario California
    I was at the CarWash show last week and there were many running diplays of the Chemmilizer style of pumps. It has become a very popular design for its simplicity, reliability, and automate proportioning ability. it is definetly noisy walking by any of the booths that had them on display.
    The peristaltic pumps are probably the quietest but the tubes do require regular changing. Diaphragm pumps are also a bit noisy.
  19. MagKarl

    MagKarl New Member

    Messages:
    37
    Location:
    Washington
    I ordered a Stenner pump, solution tank, pcm, flow meter, and a Wellmate 120 gal retention tank. Also ordered 2cf of carbon and some gravel so that I'm ready when my carbon is used up. Big spending day in my world, but I should be ready for anything now.
  20. MagKarl

    MagKarl New Member

    Messages:
    37
    Location:
    Washington
    I forgot to ask what type of chlorine testing equipment is recommended in order to check total and free chlorine levels.
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