Gurgling sink with aav mystery

[Jeff_Bathroom]

Hi,
The dual kitchen sink has issues draining. The left side (disploser side with dishwasher that empties into the disposer), gurgles as it drains. The right side doesn't gurgle, but it is not as fast draining as it should be. These are on an AAV. I replaced the Oatey AAV 6 with a
Studor Redi Vent 16. I have only had the new AAV on there for about a day. It "seems" to have helped
but it might just be wishful thinking and I might be off base entirely. Usually we also get water coming on the right side sink when the dishwasher is running. And if we have a fair amount of water in the disposer sink, turning it on can throw a spout of water up several feet into the air on the right side sink. Now the odd thing is that if I remove the AAV entirely, both sinks drain great, no gurgling and everything is faster. I'm concerned that the gurgling might be air coming through the traps, sucking
the trap or traps dry allowing septic gases in the house. Although I do not smell any odor even with the AAV removed. That could be however because we have a dual septic system. I suspect the kitchen
is hooked to the one meant for washing water and not the bath output. But, I'm just guessing.
One other thing, I took apart both traps and took about a 2 foot long plastic snake as far as I could
reach and I pulled out nothing significant. There was a little bit of gunk in the traps but not enough
to cause any problems. I cleaned the with bleach and put back together. I've uploaded two photos. I can tell you that the dishwasher empties into the disposer and that the two sink traps are at the same horizontal level and connected to the single vertical vent. The Studor is about two feet above the weirs.
Suggestions?

 

[FullySprinklered]

Wow, that really is a mystery. Now let's talk about your geography issues. Your avatar is the flag of the state of Georgia, yet you say you are from Florida. What's that all about?

Also, did you take the plastic wrap off the AAV when you installed it?

 

[Sponsor]

 

[hj]

AAVs ONLY relieve a negative pressure, but you apparently have a positive pressure caused by an obstructed drain line somewhere.

 

[Jeff_Bathroom]

AAVs ONLY relieve a negative pressure, but you apparently have a positive pressure caused by an obstructed drain line somewhere.

I wonder why the right side drain doesn't gurgle but the left does (with aav installed....neither side gurgle much when the aav is removed entirely). I am also going to re-install the Oatey aav and test again to see if it was my imagination that the new one worked better. I think it will end up being my imagination, but I just want to see it again.
So, if I remove the aav and put a baggie over the vent stack, that baggie should fill with air when the water runs. Does that sound right? I'm quoting a test the Oatey support guy was suggesting. He also said that this is not an uncommon issue with septic systems. He suggested that I might have to get some kind of a U vent or something on my septic tank. Is that anything you've heard of? Or do you think I just need to get that 3" drain snaked?
Thanks for the response.

 

[DonL]

I know this may sound a bit crazy but works for me.

I run the Hot water till it is as hot as it can get, then plug and fill the sinks with Hot water and put lots of dish washing liquid like Dawn mixed while it is filling.

After the sink is full Then I pull the plug out. You can see it drain faster.

It helps to clear the line going to the Grease Trap.

Sounds strange, but works for me. I do that about once a month.


Good Luck on your project.

 

[Jeff_Bathroom]

I know this may sound a bit crazy but works for me.

I run the Hot water till it is as hot as it can get, then plug and fill the sinks with Hot water and put lots of dish washing liquid like Dawn mixed while it is filling.

After the sink is full Then I pull the plug out.

It helps to clear the line going to the Grease Trap.

Sounds strange, but works for me. I do that about once a month.


Good Luck on your project.

That's certainly easy enough to try. I'll give it a shot.
Thanks for the suggestion.

 

[Jeff_Bathroom]

That's certainly easy enough to try. I'll give it a shot.
Thanks for the suggestion.

That I could tell, the soapy hot water didn't make a difference. I also plunged both sides.
One interesting thing happened while plunging the right side. Water and crud came flying out of
the bottom of the water dispenser. We don't even use that dispenser since the prior owners seem to have
disconnected what was probably an osmosis filter from it at some point. Note that a drain for that little dispenser
is attached just below the right side sink drain. It's that black hose in the photo. I still don't understand why that
dispenser needs a drain, but I wonder if it is causing some kind of problem.
Regarding the suggestion that I may have a clog somewhere, I wonder why the right sink drains without gurgling but the left does gurgle and cause issues. It seems like when the left side drains, the water likes to
run backward up the right drain. There must be something in the configuration that is causing that to be such a
noticeable difference from the way the right drain works. I mean, why wouldn't the right drain do the same thing and cause water to go up the left drain side?

 

[Reach4]

I still don't understand why that
dispenser needs a drain, but I wonder if it is causing some kind of problem.

A reverse osmosis filter passes some water through a membrane to be dispensed. However it needs to put water that did not go through the membrane into the drain. Also, some use the pressure of the water that will go to the drain to boost pressure for the filtered water. So an RO system might put a gallon of water down the drain for each quart dispensed.

I don't know why you are having your asymmetrical gurgle.

 

[hj]

If you did not have separate traps you would NOT have a "gurgle" but it would drain just as poorly. The disposer causes a gurgling when it drains because it can force air backwards through the sink trap. If does happen the other way because the flowing water is blocking the disposer's trap.

 

[Jeff_Bathroom]

If you did not have separate traps you would NOT have a "gurgle" but it would drain just as poorly. The disposer causes a gurgling when it drains because it can force air backwards through the sink trap. If does happen the other way because the flowing water is blocking the disposer's trap.

When I put a lot of water in the left disposer side, then release the water and look down the
right-hand drain with a flashlight keeping my eye on the drain hole for the filtered water dispenser, I can see
water from the trap rises upward over that little drain hole. The more water that is draining and backing
up waiting to be drained, the louder and more violent the gurgling and splashing on the right side drain. I'm wondering if that little hole could be acting as a vent. I guess the question is whether given my configuration,
should five gallons or so of water from the left-hand drain released all at once slam against the wall of the vertical
drain/vent pipe and rebound back into the right hand drain? Or should it just fly down the drain and not rebound
back into the right hand trap? And maybe I'm describing that incorrectly. Maybe it just fills up the drain pipe completely with water such that it fills every available cavity including the pipe coming out of the right-hand trap.
I just don't know what the behavior should be in this case. I guess I need to find a cap the size of that filtered water drain connection and cap it off to test the possible vent theory.

 

[Jeff_Bathroom]

I'm wondering if that little hole could be acting as a vent.

This url shows an under counter osmosis water filter installation - http://espwaterproducts.com/ro-installation.htm
which says to drill the drain hole 6 inches above the trap. I assume that means 6 inches above the trap weir which this one clearly is not. It's only 3 inches above the trap weir. I don't know what the expected consequences are for it being installed less than the stated 6 inches.

 

[DonL]

I guess I need to find a cap the size of that filtered water drain connection and cap it off to test the possible vent theory.

It would not hurt.

Do you have a Grease Trap ?

 

[Jeff_Bathroom]

It would not hurt.

Do you have a Grease Trap ?

I had to go look that up. I really don't know. I thought that I have two septic tanks according to
the guy that cleaned it out before we moved in. There is supposedly a smaller one that I thought was probably for everything that is non bathroom related or that had a lot of soap associated with it like laundry. But maybe the smaller one is a grease trap?

 

[Jeff_Bathroom]

It would not hurt.

Do you have a Grease Trap ?

I researched some more about a grease trap and that seems fairly uncommon for residential applications, especially for newer houses. I'm wondering if when the septic guy told me there were two tanks, maybe he was just talking about a two compartment tank. I didn't find any info about installing two separate tanks; one for mainly water applications and laundry and the other for waste solids. I just assumed that was why he said I have two tanks.

 

[DonL]

Normally the Grease trap will be smaller.

A 2 tank septic system will normally have two tanks of the same size.

A Garbage disposable is not good for a septic system.

It can fill a grease trap or septic tank with solids that take a long time to break down.


Good Luck

 

[Jeff_Bathroom]

Normally the Grease trap will be smaller.

A 2 tank septic system will normally have two tanks of the same size.

A Garbage disposable is not good for a septic system.

It can fill a grease trap or septic tank with solids that take a long time to break down.


Good Luck

Even if we have a grease trap, we don't throw the bulk of our grease down the drain. I need to get the plans for our septic layout from the county if it's not in our house papers.
Thanks for the suggestions.
I replaced that vertical drain piece that had the water filter drain on it. I turned off water supply to that little faucet since we don't use it anyway. That little drain was not the cause of the problems though. Nothing changed.
So, the question remains whether with this design, the gurgling water and the backup of water draining from the left to the right is more or less normal. Should all this bubbling be happening? The water is still draining reasonably fast. I think at this point, I think I'd get a pro out here to get suggestions and possibly snake this drain unless any pro here has a suggestion.

 

[Tom Sawyer]

Oh for Christ's sakes, quit screwing around with it and call someone to clean out the drain. It ain't the vent and it ain't the AAV. Your drain has something in it and plunging and drain O ain't gonna fix it.

 

[Jeff_Bathroom]

Oh for Christ's sakes, quit screwing around with it and call someone to clean out the drain. It ain't the vent and it ain't the AAV. Your drain has something in it and plunging and drain O ain't gonna fix it.

I like to try to fix things myself if I can and possibly learn along the way. I've already said I'm going to do that if there were no further suggestions. Why the ugly attitude anyway? Nobody is forcing you to follow this thread.

 

[Tom Sawyer]

17 posts for a clogged drain....really? HJ told you way back at the beginning what the problem IS and yet, on and on the thread goes for no earthly reason. The drain is clogged and no homeowner solutions short of you investing a couple grand in the right machinery is going to fix it.

 

[Jeff_Bathroom]

17 posts for a clogged drain....really? HJ told you way back at the beginning what the problem IS and yet, on and on the thread goes for no earthly reason. The drain is clogged and no homeowner solutions short of you investing a couple grand in the right machinery is going to fix it.

Again, I had said I was going to bring in a plumber, but was just asking if there were any further ideas. No one person always has the answer, with all due respect to HJ and despite that he is probably correct. That aside, what is a show stopper for me is the hostile and degrading way that you speak and it is apparently condoned on in this forum. Too bad because it used to be a friendly and useful forum.