Guinevere or AS One Piece Town Square RH?

Discussion in 'Toilet Forum discussions' started by TWEAK, Mar 3, 2010.

  1. TWEAK

    TWEAK New Member

    Messages:
    86
    Location:
    Bay Area CA
    I'm new here... and could use some guidance.

    I am just finishing the tile floor on a on a bathroom remodel and am ready for a toilet. I had a Kohler Gabrielle (2001) and it was disappointing-- hard water stained it and it always takes two flushes. Didn't clog often, that's one good thing. I put in a softener which helped with the staining but still the flush was poor so I would rather stay away from Kohler.

    Style wise, I like an elongated, one piece, skirted design. Toto "Eco Guinevere" fits that bill, as does a brand new one piece "Town Square RH" from American Standard, just released. This (part #2847.128) is a different toilet than the older two piece Town Square, which I think they still sell.

    I read some comments about weak flush and wash of the double cyclone on the Eco Guinevere on another forum, but also know that Terry likes this toilet. Latest MAP test shows that the EcoGuinevere "only" handles 500 grams, which is on the low side for a high performance toilet. Plusses are, it's Toto quality, Sanagloss, and looks nice.

    The new AS rates 1000 grams on the MAP test. It also fits the style of the room. My concern with this one is that it doesn't come with the "everclean" surface, which I assume is the AS version of Sanagloss? I've also heard that American Standard quality is spotty. Plusses are, great flush specs--twice that of Toto, and also looks nice.

    My first question is, in reality how important is 500 grams v. 1000 grams? 500 grams is still more than one pound! But the 1000 grams of the AS must be an imprssively powerful flush. Please help me with perspective on this. Would really like not to have to flush "one more time" to take care of lingering debris. My other question is, how important is the "everclean" finish? I have soft water. I've read comments on Sanagloss on other forums from people that love it and people that claim it's not worth the money... wonder what the opinions is on "everclean". Again, help!

    These are both expensive fixtures. I don't want to make another mistake!

    Thanks for your comments!
  2. jadnashua

    jadnashua Retired Defense Industry Engineer xxx

    Messages:
    21,922
    Location:
    New England
    If you do a search, you'll see both Terry's and the originator's opinion of the current MAP test...get the Toto, you won't be sorry. Manufacturers have learned how to maximize the test with the plastic wrapped paste. Nobody excretes stuff remotely similar. Plus, the average person doesn't dump anywhere near that much - 1000g is 2.2 pounds, about 9 sticks of butter end-to-end...that's almost impossible to produce. Toto does real-world testing, most of the others try to maximize the test results. They aren't the same.
  3. Terry

    Terry Administrator Staff Member

    Messages:
    14,911
    Location:
    Bothell, Washington
    I've installed TOTO toilets rated at 325 grams that out performed a Kohler Cimarron.
    The Cimarron gets a good MaP rating, but they plug, and they don't rinse.

    Map has no rating on bowl wash or rinse.
    MaP only tests for 3/4" paste wrapped in plastic wrap.

    Rather then follow behind like a blind puppy, I will buy and install a toilet, and use it for a while.

    A MaP of 1000 has proven to be rather meaningless.
    All that may mean, is that the bowl has been tweaked for 3/4" paste.
    It may not have any bowl rinse.
    Or the bowl may wobble when you set it on a flat floor. If it wobbles, pick up about 1000 grams of shims.

    I've sold about 150 of the Soiree and Guinevere.
    Most of those are repeat customers.
    Real people seem to love them.
    But what real people like, may be very different then how they are testing them.
    My report tends to be written by housewives and husbands, kids and plumbers.

    The Sanagloss is noticeably better at staying clean.
    I have two bowls here, and one without.
    I should have never installed the non-Sanagloss bowl, but it's important to cross check all these things.
    For a little more, the bowl would always look nicer.
    Last edited: Mar 4, 2010
  4. TWEAK

    TWEAK New Member

    Messages:
    86
    Location:
    Bay Area CA
    Thank you for your comments. I had a feeling that the 500 gram v. 1000 gram flush wasn't as important as some make it out to be. I also fear the wobbly bowl or other quality problems, that are most likely not going to happen with a Toto.
  5. jadnashua

    jadnashua Retired Defense Industry Engineer xxx

    Messages:
    21,922
    Location:
    New England
    When setting a toilet, you may need to shim any toilet if the floor isn't flat. It compounds things if the toilet isn't flat, too.
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