Got a quote from Kinetico, looking for other options

Discussion in 'Water Softener Forum, problems, installation and r' started by mslaga, Jan 17, 2010.

  1. mslaga

    mslaga New Member

    Messages:
    4
    Location:
    Wirtz, VA
    I had Kinetico come out earlier this week to perform a water test and they provided me with a couple of quotes. I'm quite new to water softeners and the like, but trying to get my head wrapped around it at least enough to invest in a unit.

    They quoted me a 1040S @ $1549, and a 2030S @ $2349 and a free MAC7500 under sink filter. That seems pretty steep to me.

    I have a 3 full bath house, and I'll quote what I have on the water test below:
    Well water
    Hardness of 7 gpg
    Iron of 0 gpg
    Compensated Hardness of 7 gpg
    PH of 6.9
    TDS of 120ppm

    My plumbing is 3/4" CPVC and drain is ~ 15' from where the softener would reside. (off subject, but with a septic, do you see a problem with regen draining to septic tank?)

    Household is 7 people (wife and I and five kids), so we are constantly washing clothes and using water. We presently get our drinking water in 5gal bottles and use 14 per month. We are hoping that a new system will also give us great tasting water. Definitely adds to the ROI.

    We are looking for a system that will be available 24/7, as with 5 kids you never know when one is taking a shower or using the bathroom, needing a middle-of-the-night hose off, etc.

    If I have the numbers correct in Gary's calculator, I have the following:

    Based on the information you entered,2940 is your Daily Grains of Capacity needed. 23520 is the Total Grains of Capacity you need for approximately once per week regeneration with a 24 hr reserve. 1.5 is the minimum cubic foot size of softener required for your capacity needs.

    Now to SFR. It is quite possible that we might have two showers going, clothes washer and dishwasher all running at the same time. Our well provides us plenty of pressure presently, so I would like to minimize loss due to the system.

    I'm quite certain there is more information needed to really be able to provide some help with my needs, so please ask and I will answer if I can.

    Thanks in advance!

    Matt Slaga
  2. Akpsdvan

    Akpsdvan In the Trades

    Messages:
    1,494
    Location:
    Alaska
    1.5 Cubic single would work, cleaning at 2 am, unless you think that some one is going to be up at 2 in the morning using water other than to go to the bathroom and rinse the hands.

    You might also look to see if there is an Independant Dealer in you area, might be able to give you a better price..
  3. Bob999

    Bob999 In the Trades

    Messages:
    448
    Location:
    Pennsylvania
    You mention you currently are drinking bottled water. There is nothing in your water test report that suggests why you are using bottled water and you mention you are looking for "great drinking water". It would be helpful if you explain more fully the reasons for using bottled water because hardness is considered by many people to improve the taste of water as compared to softened water.

    Additionally you list the pH of the water as 6.9 which is very slightly acidic. With CPVC plumbing the pH is not a problem. However, most people consider more alkaline water--water with high pH -- to be "sweeter" and I am wondering if that is one of the issues you have.

    Draining a softener in a septic system is not usually a problem with a well designed, maintained, and operating septic system. However, if you have an alternative--such as a dry well that can be used--then that might be desirable.

    If you really want, or need, softened water 24/7 you will need to go to a twin resin tank system. They cost more than single resin tank systems because there are two resin tanks and the valve to control two tanks is more expensive. Most people get along fine with a single tank set to regenerate in the middle of the night one a week. Regeneration typically takes less than 90 minutes and water can be used during regeneration--but it will not be softened.
    Last edited: Jan 17, 2010
  4. mslaga

    mslaga New Member

    Messages:
    4
    Location:
    Wirtz, VA
    We currently use bottled water because our well water has a 'grainy' taste to it. We presently have a sediment filter that I change every two months that gets a pretty good amount of magnesium sediment, so I'm thinking that is where the grainy taste comes from.

    That's good information, I thought that there was no water (or low volume water) when the system regenerates. I don't think the two tank system would be worth the extra money in that case.
  5. Bob999

    Bob999 In the Trades

    Messages:
    448
    Location:
    Pennsylvania
    How do you know the sediment is magnesium? Have you had a test done? If not can you describe it? What color is it? Does it have an odor? etc.

    Typically magnesium, if present in the water,will be dissolved and is a part of the total hardness measure. Your hardness of 7, while at a level that many chose to treat with a softener, is really not a particularly high level and generally not enough to cause precipitation of the mineral.
  6. mslaga

    mslaga New Member

    Messages:
    4
    Location:
    Wirtz, VA
    I showed the guy from Kinetico the sediment, and he said it was magnesium and very common in my area. So, other than what he told me, I have not had the sediment tested or anything. My prefilter seems to get most of it, but there is some sediment in the bottom of the toilet tanks so it must be getting through in some amount. The well was installed in 2002, so it's not from a new well or anything.

    The water we have from our well does not taste good, hence the need for the bottled water. It does not smell, or have any odor, just the 'grainy' taste.
  7. nhmaster

    nhmaster Master Plumber

    Messages:
    3,189
    Location:
    S. Maine
    As you have probably already found out, you can buy similar equipment for roughly 1/2 the prices you were quoted, so you
    are paying markup plus installation. The quotes you got are pretty much what you can expect from any installer. The big
    question is whether or not you feel confident enough to install the equipment yourself. Being mindful that the drain must be either piped to the outside
    ( may kill the grass and vegitation )or be piped to a vented trap inside, along with the water piping modifications and an electrical outlet.
  8. mslaga

    mslaga New Member

    Messages:
    4
    Location:
    Wirtz, VA
    Yes, I definitely noticed that I can get them much cheaper online.

    I feel pretty comfortable installing the system myself. I did a bunch of copper plumbing at another house, and this one is cpvc which should be much easier than that to work with than that. I also have a good friend who is a handyman that I will hire to help out. He's already done some plumbing work here and did a really good job.

    I already have an electrical outlet withing 6-8 feet of the location.

    For drainage, I'm thinking of piping 10-15' to a garage washtub and tie into the drain pipe below with a dishwasher drain attachment and a one-way valve or air-gap (or both).

    On another note, Gary's calculator says a minimum of 1.5 cu ft, does that mean I should look at a larger unit to be safe? I see that 2.0 cu ft units are only sightly more expensive.

    Thanks in advance!
    Matt
  9. Akpsdvan

    Akpsdvan In the Trades

    Messages:
    1,494
    Location:
    Alaska
    The 1.5 cubic single will work very well for your houshold, unless you feel that there is going to be large water usage from the hours of 2am to 3:30am on any given morning that the unit would be cleaning.

    Yes you can get just about any thing cheaper on line, but will they be there for you when you have a challenge with the unit?

    I am not saying not to buy on line nor am I saying that you can only buy from a local dealer, Just make sure that you look at all and ask questions, lots of questions from who ever you buy from lots of questions.

    After sales service is as important as pricing of the unit.
  10. Gary Slusser

    Gary Slusser That's all folks!

    Unless you have consistent water use 24/7, you don't need a twin tank type softener and to pay ther higher prices for one.

    Yes it should go in the septic unless you are having a problem with it.

    That will dictate what size softener based on the constant SFR you need to cover your peak demand flow rate. A softener may or may not change the taste of your water. Most people don't notice a taste difference.

    The minimum cuft is based on the salt efficiency only; it has nothing to do with the SFR you need unless the SFR of that cuft is higher than your peak demand gpm.

    You have to call me to go over your peak demand etc..

    A correctly sized softener will not reduce your flow (pressure) and you'll never know it's there.
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