Got a question about using a 3x3x2 wye horizontally

Discussion in 'Plumbing Forum, Professional & DIY Advice, Tips & ' started by DemoDick, Oct 3, 2013.

  1. DemoDick

    DemoDick New Member

    Messages:
    7
    Location:
    Atlanta
    Hello all,

    I am certainly no plummer just a homeowner trying to tie in his sewage ejector pump to his main drain line so forgive me if I get some of the terminology wrong.

    I am coming up one wall and across the ceiling with the 2" pipe. I have the right grade and am tying it into the main 3" drain line horizontally with a 45 wye with a 60 degree elbow.

    The inspector came out today and said I needed to tilt the wye so the 3" pipe was not "cut in half" from the 2" opening of the wye so I had to rotate so the opening of the 2" portion was above the halfway point of the 3" pipe.

    Does this make sense? all the other 3x3x3 wyes that are in my house that I can see are all lying lat on their side(is that the right terminology?). Is it a different story when dropping size on the horizontal plane? I thought i had this done up pretty good.

    Here is a picture of the entire run.
    20131003_231848-.jpg

    Here is one from directly below
    20131003_232410.jpg

    And here is one from eye level
    20131003_231658.jpg

    Attached Files:

  2. Cajunhiker

    Cajunhiker New Member

    Messages:
    2
    Location:
    Lafayette, LA
    You gotta turn that wye up at least 15 degrees so the waste will dump into the 3 inch pipe. As is, a blockage in the 3" pipe will back up into the 2" pipe.
  3. Terry

    Terry Administrator Staff Member

    Messages:
    14,889
    Location:
    Bothell, Washington
    Being that you are tying in a sewage ejector, that changes things. In Seattle, they like those to go into 4" waste lines, not 3"

    Go ahead an tilt the 3x2 wye so that the pumped 2" enters higher than the flow line of the 3".
    Don't feel bad, you've done well. Now you're gonna do weller. :)
  4. hj

    hj Moderator & Master Plumber Staff Member

    Messages:
    26,472
    Location:
    Cave Creek, Arizona
    quote; In Seattle, they like those to go into 4" waste lines, not 3"

    What do you do when the entire system connects to a 3" sewer?

    You had an "anally retentive" inspector. There is no reason an "active drain" such as a pump discharge would have to enter the main line at a higher elevation. (That is a requirement for a vent so it does not get "backup" during normal usage.) It would be no different than if it were the drain from a shower or tub which CAN enter on the same plane, assuming you have proper pitch on the drain line. IF he had any issues with the installation, he should have rejected those two Mission couplings which are not approved for where, and how, you installed them.
    Last edited: Oct 4, 2013
  5. Terry

    Terry Administrator Staff Member

    Messages:
    14,889
    Location:
    Bothell, Washington
    Seattle doesn't have 3" sewers.

    But like the above problem, The wye should have been okay where it was,
    Dumping into a 3" line should have been fine in Seattle,
    The rubber Ferncos are "not" good anywhere that I know of except in the ground where they can be supported.
    But then, that's inspectors soemtimes.
  6. hj

    hj Moderator & Master Plumber Staff Member

    Messages:
    26,472
    Location:
    Cave Creek, Arizona
    Almost ALL houses in Arizona, unless they have 4 or more toilets HAVE a 3" main line all the way to the city connection at the property line.
  7. Terry

    Terry Administrator Staff Member

    Messages:
    14,889
    Location:
    Bothell, Washington
    Here in Washington, we can stub out 3" if we have three toilets or less. The 4" sewer starts within 24" of the outside foundation.
    I never saw any reason why the 2" output from a sewage ejector couldn't dump into a 3" line though. I'm not an inspector though. I've also put them in 3" lines on the Eastside. It's really only the very old Seattle homes that were run with 4" cast that even have that option.
  8. Tom Sawyer

    Tom Sawyer In the Trades

    Messages:
    3,124
    Location:
    Maine
    We dump them into 3" lines all the time. Very few houses here have a 4" main. Only the pipe through the foundation is required to be 4"
  9. hj

    hj Moderator & Master Plumber Staff Member

    Messages:
    26,472
    Location:
    Cave Creek, Arizona
    quote; Only the pipe through the foundation is required to be 4"

    We do not even have that restriction. Ours go 3" all the way to the city's connection.
  10. DemoDick

    DemoDick New Member

    Messages:
    7
    Location:
    Atlanta


    I am assuming if they are not allowed there is a reason. What is that reason and what should I do there instead?

    Thanks all for the feedback.
  11. Terry

    Terry Administrator Staff Member

    Messages:
    14,889
    Location:
    Bothell, Washington
    [​IMG]

    We use a shielded coupling there to prevent the pipes from shifting. When you come back in a few years, those rubber ferncos will have sagged quite a bit.
    They're just made of rubber. I've seen some that have become very deformed.
  12. DemoDick

    DemoDick New Member

    Messages:
    7
    Location:
    Atlanta
    Thanks man!

    I have it supported 3 times over the sub 4 foot span but that said.

    The box store has the "Fernco 3 in. No-Hub Cast Iron x 3 in. Sch 40 PVC, Steel and Extra Heavy Cast Iron Neoprene Rubber Shielded Coupling" in stock. For 8 bucks each I will go back and switch them out. Not going to be here long term but I have always hated the thought that someone that buys my house someday would be sitting in a puddle of you know what cursing my name as his wife screams that she cannot give their 6 month old kid a bath while he fixes it.
  13. DemoDick

    DemoDick New Member

    Messages:
    7
    Location:
    Atlanta
    All that said I have a 4" drop over a 10' span so I have the pitch plus some to spare. My entire house is only 3" main drain line until it gets to the foundation then it is 4" newer house built in 08.

    Tilting that wye up is going to be no fun as I am going to have to play geometry man but I am thinking I am not going to win an argument whit an inspector as I have stated I am not a licensed plummer. Heck I should probably be committed.
  14. Terry

    Terry Administrator Staff Member

    Messages:
    14,889
    Location:
    Bothell, Washington
    Welcome to the plumbing fraternity!
    Being committed is part of the process. :)
    Dooh!
  15. DemoDick

    DemoDick New Member

    Messages:
    7
    Location:
    Atlanta
    OK so the way it is laid out I think it is just going to be better for me to run things a bit differently. I failed to mention this earlier but this work was actually first done by a licensed plummer. After some issues with him showing up when he said he would and then cracking my tub I decided to take it on myself and when I did I found there was no trap under the tub. He was recommended by a friend and was not even the lowest bidder so I thought he would be the guy. Guess not.....anyway....

    If I am going to go run the same vertical on the left hand of the room in the picture above but I am going to run some hole in the rafters and run it through then rather than under them to get some extra height so I can come straight down into the top of the 3x3x2 wye.

    If I do so is it best to use long sweep 90s to make the transitions from vertical to horizontal? Any advantage over a normal 90?

    Again any advantage to a long sweep 90 if I am changing horizontal direction(making right and left turns)? TO me they look like they would flow better but II am normally wrong about stuff.

    Is it OK to put the 3x3x2 on its back with a 45 street elbow to make that 90? My inspector said it did not have to be a 90 degree direction change but is that better?



    p.s. I have all the specs on the engineered beams and know where I can and cannot cut holes and I am good there and I will then have the min 1/4 per foot pitch all the way into the wye.


    Thanks again guys!
  16. Terry

    Terry Administrator Staff Member

    Messages:
    14,889
    Location:
    Bothell, Washington
    I would not put the pipe through the joists on your home.
    Cut the pipe and raise it using the hangers you already have.
    Angle the wye with a section of pipe, and point it toward the pipe. That angle will be plenty. Use long turn 90 bends, especially since you are pumping that line.

    There was never a code that required the way to be raised anyway. Tilting the wye toward the raise pipe should be enough for your inspector.

    And get that p-trap for the tub too.
  17. DemoDick

    DemoDick New Member

    Messages:
    7
    Location:
    Atlanta
    I am just in a bind because the pipe starts out on the left of the room smack up against the bottom of the joist. As I come down 1/4 per foot buy the time I make it to the right side of the room I only have about 1" of an elevation difference between where the 2" pipe would be following the pitch and where the 2" connection wye would be sitting level on its side. So even if I tilt it up a bit I cannot find an elbow or combination of elbows to make it all come together correctly.

    Yeah the inspector has me pulling my hair out as no 10 feet form this wye there is a 3x3x3 that is on its side that is bringing one side of the houses drains into the line with the others. Grrrrrrrrr.

    p.s Yeah I put that trap in there while I had the tub out.
  18. Terry

    Terry Administrator Staff Member

    Messages:
    14,889
    Location:
    Bothell, Washington
    [​IMG]

    There is no reason for that 2" line to "grade" down. It's a pumped line. It can and does go straight up from the pump. I would just pull it tight up to the floor joist, and then drop down to your 3" gravity waste line.
    The 2" is "not" a gravity drain. It has a pump "pushing" waste water through it.
  19. DemoDick

    DemoDick New Member

    Messages:
    7
    Location:
    Atlanta
    wye.jpg

    Well I moved it down a bit and over where there was better place to run it. This pleased the inspector. I also put in a new wye and new piece of 3" so I only had to used one shielded coupling. Braced it real well on either side of the shielded coupling as well. No more standard mission couplings. Took some extra work to figure out how to get it all back together with only one coupling. Almost could have put it back together with none but it would have meant putting another joint in the 3" so I said screw it and just used one shielded.

    Thanks for all the help guys!!
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