Ge Pro Elite Water Softener problems

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duker733

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Hello, first post here. Great to find this forum to discuss this stuff.

Trying to keep this as short as possible, while supplying as much info as possible. I am on well water and when I moved in here a year ago there was a water softener installed some years ago. It seemed to be working ok, but it looks kind of old so I purchased a new one.

For a really great deal (basically free) I got a brand new GE Pro Elite softener with an Autotrol 268/716 valve on it.

Install was simple as I just swapped it into place of the older one. I ran it about 30 minutes in backwash mode to clean out the resin. Then ran it through all of the cycles to make sure it was drawing from the brine tank, which it is.
Programming the valve was a little confusing, but I think I got it about right.
I had no info on the size of the unit when I bought it, hence the good deal, but researching and measuring the resin tank dimensions, which are: 12" wide x 48" high, it looks to hold about 1.75 -2.00 cu ft of resin. So I've got it set in the valve programming for 2.00 cu ft.

My problem is, it seems to be functioning fine as I've ran it through about 4 or 5 regenerations and it's drawing all the brine from the brine tank and rinsing and refilling the brine tank, but I have no soft water whatsoever.

My water tests out at around 10 gpg of hardness.

I've dumped 4 bags of salt in the brine tank, checked all brine connections, even pulled the injector valve and screen out to make sure it was clean and not clogged, but after 4 or 5 regens, still no soft water.

I think I may have had the salt dosage set a little low. I started first regeneration on 10lbs cu ft and lowered it to around 8lbs cu ft for the last few regenerations.

Thinking that may be too low I cranked it up to 18 lbs cu ft, (max setting) and ran one more regeneration on it tonight. What's weird is that after the last two regenerations the check salt light has been on after it finishes. There is lots of brine and salt in the tank?? I've stirred up the salt and made sure there is no bridge or blockage and still have no soft water.

I even pulled the valve off the tank last night and checked the riser tube and made sure the o-ring was in place. I cannot for the life of me figure out why there is no soft water?? I also made sure there was resin in the tank, it's orange in color, but other than that I don't know what kind it is?

So in follow up here's my settings with no soft water being produced

1.75 - 2.00 cu ft of resin in 12"x48" size tank
Autotrol 268/716 valve programmed for 2.00 cu ft of resin
Salt dosage, as of last regen 16 lbs cu ft
No soft water

Any help or ideas would be appreciated, thanks. Sorry for the long first post.
 

Bannerman

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Autotrol Inlet & Outlet connections are usually reversed from other control valve brands. You may want to verify that the softener is connected correctly.
 

duker733

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thanks for the reply. I guess I forgot to mention the previous softener had an Autotrol 460 valve, so connections are the same. I've double checked this.
 

duker733

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On another note, it seems like the water may not be flowing through the resin and out the riser tube. When I first ran water into the unit through it's first backwash I watched the water coming out of the hose. There was absolutely no color to it at all. With new resin, shouldn't you get a bit of colored water out for the first rinse? How can I verify that the water is running through the resin and up the riser tube?
 

Bannerman

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One method during brine draw is to taste the water flowing out the drain line.

As the brine would require time to flow down through the resin before exiting up the riser to the drain port, salty taste at the drain soon after the brine draw commences, would indicate a short circuit with the water entering the tank and then exiting without flowing through the resin bed. A common cause is a defect with the O-ring where the riser connects to the valve, or a damaged riser.
 

duker733

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I also noticed when I had the valve off, that the riser tube sticks out quite a bit past the top of the tank? like an inch or more. From what I've read this tube needs to be almost level with the top of the tank. Is there any problem with it being too high? Valve threads onto the tank without leaking?

If I need to cut it down can I pull the riser tube up and out of the wet media to cut it? If so how do I get it back down to the bottom??
 

Bannerman

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With many valves, the riser should be level with the top of the tank. I'm not familiar with your specific valve so you may want to consult the service manual for your valve to see what it requires.

IF the riser is too long, it would be jammed between the valve and the tank bottom when the valve is fastened to the tank. That would either bend the riser or more likely, crack the tube or break the bottom basket. I suspect your riser may have a crack in it, either above the resin or slightly below the resin surface, thereby permitting the short circuit condition.

The tank is likely to have a gravel underbed so if you pull-up the riser and basket, it would be virtually impossible to push them back down to the appropriate location in the center of the tank bottom. If the riser is to be cut, you would need to do so while it is in-place, or dump out the resin and gravel, inspect the riser and basket, cut riser to length and reinstall before returning the resin and gravel to the tank. Of course, a damaged riser would need to be replaced along with the basket screen.

As you stated that you obtained the softener for virtually no cost, why did that occur? Perhaps there was a defect previously recognised, so instead of fixing it, it was offered at a low cost.
 

duker733

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Well I discovered my problem today. Turns out the size of the hole in the bottom of my 268 Performa Autotrol valve is 1.25 inches wide. The riser tube they used inside the resin tank is the standard 1 inch. So the riser pipe was not sealing to the valve via the o-ring because the hole is bigger than the pipe. Talked to a local shop today that sells Autotrol valves and he found it quite strange and unique that this valve has that size of hole.

Anyway he phoned his supplier and they can get me a new 1.25 inch riser tube that will fit.

I just can't believe that a pre-assembled unit i received was put together this way, and there would be no way of knowing it wasn't going to work until you hook it all up like I did, and couldn't get any soft water. So after 3 days of reading and pulling every hair in my head out I finally found out the problem. Will post up a follow up once the new riser is in and working.

BTW, thanks for the tip Bannerman of checking the drain line for salty brine water right away. This told me right away the valve had to come off and something wasn't right inside. Helped out a lot. Thanks
 

Bannerman

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Glad you found the source of the problem. Water will always take the route of least resistance.

It appears that you will need to clear-out the tank contents to install the new riser and bottom basket.

Did the dealer state where the riser should be cut-off in relation to the tank height?

Did the connections require adaptors to make the plumbing fit? I would expect with a 1.25" riser, the bypass valve and fittings would also be 1.25" or larger.

As 2 cuft softeners usually use a 12" X 52" tank, your 48" tank likely does contain 1.75 cuft of resin. The GE Pro Elite operation manuals I downloaded, seem to indicate the Pro Elite Professional series, contain High Capacity resin with a maximum capacity of 37533 grains/cuft compared to 32K for standard resin.

Out of curiosity, how did you get an unbelievably great deal?
 

Reach4

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Out of curiosity, how did you get an unbelievably great deal?
Piling on after your last sentence in #7?:rolleyes:

Suppose he could probe the tube and find that it goes to the bottom.... then couldn't he saw off the high tube, get an adapter, and not have to dump the resin?

Also, what would you bet the odds are that he will find gravel when he dumps the resin?
 

duker733

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can't seem to find the quote feature here so in reply to you Bannerman.

I am getting a new riser tube the right size, so the old one is already out. The guy I talked to said to just hook up a tight water hose connection to the riser tube and shoot water down the tube as I am inserting it into the resin to get it to go to the bottom. I already tried it with just blowing into it and it goes back down quite easily. He also figures that there probably is no gravel at the bottom, but if there is the hose trick should get the riser to the bottom.

From the specs I have read it looks like it can stick up at least a quarter inch or so above the tank.

It is a weird valve, the riser is 1.25 inches in diameter but all output connections are the 1" same as other valves. It fits right onto my existing setup.

Thanks for the heads up on the amount of resin inside. I have read conflicting articles on how much that size tank should hold. Some say 2 cuft, and some say 1.75. So I'll go with the latter I guess.

The great deal I got was part of another deal. A buddy of mine works for an appliance wholesale store and I needed to purchase a new fridge, and they used to sell these ge water softeners but got out of it. He had this last model in the back and was looking to get rid of it, and couldn't find a buyer, so he sweetened the deal when I bought my fridge and through it in for free! Unbeknown on my part the frustrating problem road that was going to lead me down, but I'm glad I got it figured out and got myself a $1k or more softener for nothing. I would never purchase a softener with the autotrol valve myself but it's hard to say no to free.

Thanks for all the help.
 

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Piling on after your last sentence in #7?:rolleyes:
As it turns-out, there is an issue although it wasn't clarified if that was the reason for a great deal. If all that's required is to replace the riser & bottom basket, I'd gladly take that on for a (basically free) softener. If a problem wasn't recognized in advance, then why...?

Also, what would you bet the odds are that he will find gravel when he dumps the resin?
There may not be gravel and the tank could contain 2 cuft. With a 12" diameter tank, I would expect a gravel bed although 12" seems to be the largest diameter where gravel is sometimes omitted.
 

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can't seem to find the quote feature here so in reply to you Bannerman.
Quote command is in the 'Insert' drop down towards the right side of the reply toolbar. The text to be quoted is simply copied and is pasted in between the 2 bracketed Quote commands.

Thanks for the clarification. I was just typing post #12 when you posted.

As the riser & basket can be pushed down to the tank bottom, you are correct that it appears there was no gravel underbed installed. When you pushed the existing riser down to the bottom, did it remain 1"+ above the tank opening as you had earlier reported?
 

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I would expect a gravel bed although 12" seems to be the largest diameter where gravel is sometimes omitted.
Do you think he would be good with 20 or 30 pounds of pea gravel that he can buy locally and wash himself? You can buy a half cubic ft of that locally (50 pounds maybe) really cheap.
 

Bannerman

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Dittohead had only recently, cautioned against using gravel not normally intended for that purpose.

When I replaced my softener's resin, I purchased some gravel from a local softener dealer. I washed and disinfected it before adding it to the tank.

As Duker's resin is already in the tank, gravel could be added to the tank where it will settle to the bottom during backwash. Depending on the actual quantity of resin already installed, the gravel may displace some resin which will be expelled to the drain during backwash.
 

duker733

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I'm not going to worry about gravel. Just going to put the new riser tube in when I get it and fire this thing up, and hopefully it shall work as intended and give me some soft water. I'll post up my results when I get it all back up and running in a few days. For now, it's bypassed hard gross water.
thanks again for all the replies. Must be something with the way chrome displays this forum, because I do not see a quote button or link anywhere.
 

Bannerman

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Chrome is all I use. As stated in #13, the "Quote" button is not displayed until "Insert" is clicked to show a dropdown.
 

duker733

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So just to be clear when i program my softener, lets say it's set at 2 cuft, and it is just my wife and I using water, regular usage nothing unusual. What should I set the salt dosage at? 10lbs cu ft?
 

Bannerman

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You would obtain higher salt efficiency with an 8 lb/cuft salt setting and higher yet with a 6 lb/cuft setting, It is recommended to not use less than 6 lbs/cu ft as a further decrease can negatively effect soft water quality.

As you expect 2 cuft resin is installed, a 10 lb/cuft salt setting (20 lbs) will restore 54K grains capacity which equals 2,700 grains/lb salt efficency.
An 8 lb/cuft setting will regenerate 48K grains capacity at 3,000 grains/lb salt efficency.
A 6 lbs/cuft setting will restore 40K but will yield 3,333 grains/lb.
 
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