Gas water heaters

[Steve_P]

two questions
I have a ~14 yr old US Craftsmaster natl gas water htr that's working fine but figured now is a good time to replace it before a catastrophic failure. I believe the tank lining is deteriorating as I noticed blue chips when I last drained it.

So, I've done as much research as possible and plumbers love the Bradford White- which it also seems that I can't buy directly. I will need to do a DIY install so I assume that I probably won't be able to get a BW w/o having a plumber install. Is this correct, or will a local plumber sell me one? (I am in TN) BTW, I can sweat copper tube, etc. so the install should be no problem for me.

If I can't get a BW, it looks like my choices are the GE from Home Depot, or a Kenmore from Sears. I know not to go to Lowes and get a Whirlpool from the huge thread here.

I'd rather not deal with Sears and ordering, etc. So, is the GE a reasonable choice? I did see the Weilhammer plumbing list and it looks to be the best a consumer can purchase. So, to the pros, if you were a consumer doing a DIY install would you buy the GE?

All of the current models are ~10" taller than mine so I will need to shorten the exhaust vent- which runs vertically from the basement and thru the first floor closet and out the roof. How can I do this? TIA.

 

[Jimbo]

The GE is made by Rheem, a very good brand. I think the Kenmores are made by a division of AO Smith, parent of the famous Whirlpools.

Shortening the vent is easy if that portion is single wall galv. If it is double wall b vent, you cannot cut it, you need to get smaller sections and fit them in.

 

[Sponsor]

 

[Gary Swart]

The GE water heaters sold at Home Depot are made by Rheem. These are very good heaters. There are a couple of things you might also want to be aware when you are preparing to install a new water heater. Many areas now require earthquake straps to secure the tank from tripping over in case of an earthquake. A safety pan under the tank is also frequently required and is a good idea even if not required. Flexible copper tubes between the tank's intake and outlets make the water connections to the tank ultra simple, and a flex steel gas line make the gas connector easy as well. Don't forget a new T/P valve. I would suggest a ball valve on the water inlet side. To make the vent connection a simple as possible, try to get a heater that is as close to the sam height as you old one. Of course, you may already have some or all of these already.

 

[Jadnashua]

The burner system is required to be able to prevent vapors from the room being ignited by the WH, so most of the designs are taller to make room for those special features.

 

[Cass]

The blue chips are the dip tube breaking into pieces...a common problem with heater back then...I would replace the dip tube and wait till it leaks for replacement...

 

[Kingsotall]

The blue chips are the dip tube breaking into pieces...a common problem with heater back then...I would replace the dip tube and wait till it leaks for replacement...

And in the meantime save a few hundred bucks to have a licensed plumber install the new one, hopefully the Bradford White you want!

 

[NHmaster]

I have my helmet just about completed.

 

[Cass]

And in the meantime save a few hundred bucks to have a licensed plumber install the new one, hopefully the Bradford White you want!

He is a DIYr that says he can sweat copper...why would he call a plumber to replace a $5.00 part when he can DI him self?

BTW catastrophic failures are very rare...

 

[Cass]

I have my helmet just about completed.

I'll strap it on for you if you like...

May be you need total body protection.

 

[NHmaster]

Thanks, but I think I've found a way to put a latch in front where I can get to it.

 

[hj]

armor

With, or without, a padlock? Bradford White heaters are only supposed to be sold to plumbers, but what he does with it after that is up to him. I suppose you could find someone to see you one if you call around.

 

[Steve_P]

thanks for the info.

I don't think the vent pipe is double wall- it's 3" OD and fairly hot on the OD even 10' above the WH. The reason I asked the somewhat dumb question about shortening it is that it has "crimps" that appear to lock it into the stack on the WH. If it's single wall is it ok to just cut that crimped end off and shorten as required and then drop over the stack? I am not sure if the crimps lock it onto the stack or are just for mating sections together. I have just about every tool imaginable.

I will do my own install because I'm cheap, but also I have another issue in the wall behind the WH so I will need to attend to that while the WH is out. Because of that second issue I can't use the downstairs shower, so that's another reason for replacing the WH- if I have to take it out it would make sense to replace it. I will bring that problem up in another thread.

The WH is in an unfinished basement so I will skip the drip pan unless required. I will check on the earthquake straps- this is not a area with seismic activity so I'd be surprised if they're required but it doesn't seem like a bad idea- cheap and easy.

By "catastrophic failure" I meant a leak that would flood the basement, not an explosion!

Thanks again, I'll go with the GE.

 

[NHmaster]

Is the chimney the water heater vents into lined?

 

[Cass]

By "catastrophic failure" I meant a leak that would flood the basement

This is also what I meant...they are very rare...

I am cheaper than you...I would replace the dip tube.

BTW I did not edit your post above...I hit the wrong button and it left its mark on the post.

 

[Steve_P]

nhmaster: the vent pipe doesn't go into a chimney- it goes thru the basement ceiling, thru the first floor closet which is above the WH (it's close to the wall), thru the first floor ceiling, thru the attic crawl space, and out the roof. Basically a straight shot out the roof of the house. I'm not sure if you're saying it should go into a chimney, but keep in mind I'm in TN and, from what I can tell, our building codes are significantly less stringent than most areas. The WH was a new install when the house was built so I assume it met local codes at the time.

Cass/others: Ok, so how long does a gas WH tank usually last? What I've read said 8-10 yrs for avg gas WH life and I'm significantly beyond this so I was concerned. I assumed at the 8-10 yr life the tank was leaking at that point and it had to be replaced. No?

and a repeat: If it's single wall (vent pipe) is it ok to just cut that crimped end off and shorten as required and then drop over the stack? I am not sure if the crimps lock it onto the stack or are just for mating sections together.

Thanks again for the help

 

[Gary Swart]

The lifespan of water heaters will vary a great deal. The "average" lifespan is not a very meaningful number because there will be some that last many years and some that fail very quickly. I believe the mineral contents of your local water has more significance than anything. You might do a check with local plumbers to see what they may be able to offer on the subject. BTW, the crimp in the vent pipes is to make it possible to fit sections of pipe together. You must have the tool to make the connections. Last time I priced them, a crimping tool was about $30, but that's been awhile so they're probably $40 now. If you know a heating/AC person, you might be able to borrow a pair.

 

[Jadnashua]

Don't quote me, but usually, the crimps or corregation on the end of the vent pipe is there to make the OD smaller so it can slide into the next piece. If you can, pull that section out and cut the straight end. Normally, though it is installed with the duct inserted into the higher piece so the hot, light gasses won't leak around the joint, sort of like the way shingles are installed where the upper one covers the lower one. basically what I'm saying, is cut the end that isn't already crimped.

 

[Cacher_Chick]

My A.O. Smith water heater turned 22 this year- still going strong.

I wish they still made them like they used to.

 

[Steve_P]

Ok, I'm still a little sketchy on the crimps. I do understand that they lock the sections together. But, from my earlier post: the exhaust pipe has "crimps" that appear to lock it onto the exhaust stack on the WH. Since the new WH is taller, I will need the exhaust pipe to end farther off the floor so I will have to cut it. Is it ok to just cut that crimped end off the exhaust pipe and shorten as required and then drop over the WH exhaust stack?

basically, do I need the crimps in the exhaust pipe where they mate up with the WH exhaust stack? I wouldn't see why as the WH stack is inside the exhaust pipe and it can't go anywhere.

And thanks again for the help

 

[Jadnashua]

Post a picture of what you're talking about, then it might be clearer. There's usually a hood at the top of the WH that then attaches to the vent pipe. I'm guessing, but I don't think there's anything special needed there that doesn't come with the heater - it's designed to inteface with standard flue pipe.