Gas water heater-- sediment trap / drip leg length

Users who are viewing this thread

nikmasteed

New Member
Messages
4
Reaction score
0
Points
1
Location
Pennsylvania
My gas WH is leaking, so I had a plumber out-- the diagnosis was replacement, as well as 4 add-ons which would be "code-required": a thermal expansion tank, a ball valve at the H2o inlet, a longer T&P tube (existing one discharges well over a foot off the floor), and a longer sediment trap (ie drip leg, although I dont feel the need to quibble over terminology-- sediment trap seems correct for this application).

I'm going to agree to the expansion tank and the T&P tube. The ball valve I will put in myself.

It's the new sediment trap that doesn't seem to fly at all, especially since I HAVE an existing one just before the controls, right where it should be, that's about 3-1/2 to 4" long depending on where you measure. It forces the gas to make a 90 just as it should, leaving sediment/moisture to fall into the trap. When the plumber was on-site, he told me that it needed to be 6" long-- at the time I didn't know any better. Now, I'm not seeing ANY code or manufacturer requirement that says 6" is needed. Everything seems to point to a 3" minimum. Am I right to call foul on this one? If it matters, I'm in PA. I plan on checking in with my municipality to try to get their ruling before they come out for the WH replacement.

Thanks in advance!
Purchased my home last year and glad I found this forum! I imagine I'll be here a decent amount of I'm relatively comfortable with DIY, especially for water plumbing, less so with gas plumbing.
 

Reach4

Well-Known Member
Messages
38,749
Reaction score
4,400
Points
113
Location
IL
The expansion may not be law/code required either, although the ball valve is worthwhile. The need would depend on your water meter assuming you do not have a pressure regulator for your water, but it might be required by local regulation. Ask about that while asking about the drip loop.

Did you already pay the plumber who may be padding the job?

Not a pro.
 

nikmasteed

New Member
Messages
4
Reaction score
0
Points
1
Location
Pennsylvania
The expansion may not be law/code required either, although the ball valve is worthwhile. The need would depend on your water meter assuming you do not have a pressure regulator for your water, but it might be required by local regulation. Ask about that while asking about the drip loop.

Did you already pay the plumber who may be padding the job?

Not a pro.


Thanks for the response.

Haven't paid yet-- work scheduled for later this week. Part of the reason they "may" be padding is because I have a home warranty from my house purchase-- the 13-yr old WH is covered as part of that warranty and I'm mandated to use this company in order to make that claim for the "free" new tank. Warranty company obviously covers what's there, but not what wasn't and may be now required.

I do not have a pressure regulator, thus one reason I take no particular issue with the expansion tank.
 

Reach4

Well-Known Member
Messages
38,749
Reaction score
4,400
Points
113
Location
IL
Ya know that to avoid confrontation, you could maybe put in a longer nipple yourself if it is legal to do where you are. You would need to get the black pipe nipple (maybe reuse old nipple or get a new one), cut off the gas. Replace parts using Rectorseal #5 or yellow Teflon tape. Using the same way as your other gas pipes might be best so that your new work does not stand out. Then turn the gas back on, and re-light pilots if you have any.

That doesn't help the expansion tank thing much. An unneeded expansion tank is different from a simple nipple.

They may routinely pad the bill to compensate for the low reimbursement they get from the insurance company. Sorry you are going through this, but it is informative reading for the rest of us. I wonder if an insurance commission or whateveryour state has would go to bat for you. Maybe ask the insurance company whether they would intercede for you, or if the insurance commission would be the right way to go. Maybe ask the plumber if the plumbing licencing board would be the best place to appeal to. Have you looked up the plumber on Yelp or BBB?
 

nikmasteed

New Member
Messages
4
Reaction score
0
Points
1
Location
Pennsylvania
I suspect you are correct that their reimbursement probably does not cover their full costs and that they likely look to re-coop with add-ons.

The way I look at this particular situation is that I bought a house with a 13year old water heater, and the home warranty very luckily in my favor covers the cost and labor of the water heater itself. If, at the end of the day, I pay $300-500 and I end up with a brand new water heater w/ expansion tank, I think I come out on top all day on that one.

Like I said, I'll let them do the expansion tank and I don't even have qualms about it.

The sediment trap, if there is absolutely no need for modification of the existing sediment trap, then there's no need for me to spend $75 on it. Still curious about any trap length requirements anyone may have seen.
 

Jadnashua

Retired Defense Industry Engineer xxx
Messages
32,771
Reaction score
1,191
Points
113
Location
New England
A new nipple and cap is about maybe $5, and it takes all of five minutes, so even at $120/hour, that's all of $10 labor...$75 while they are already there seems a ripoff to me. Now, if they came to your house to do just that, that amount would be likely cheap, but that's not what's happening here.

Drip legs in some places are no longer required at all. Where I live, you are required to have an expansion tank, regardless of whether your current house has an open or closed system...in prep for bringing it up to code, most places have a schedule to install check valves in their meters (or at them), and then you'd need one. This is in prep for that situation.
 

Terry

The Plumbing Wizard
Staff member
Messages
29,946
Reaction score
3,460
Points
113
Location
Bothell, Washington
Website
terrylove.com
Are they serious about the drip leg?
I'm just curious abou how much they wanted to charge to extend the nipple by 2"
Most of the time, I don't see drip legs for those.
And extending the relief line by 12"? That's an extra? When I install a water heater, I assume I'm also installing a relief line too. Within a few feet I don't care. If I have to run it outside, that would be extra.
We always install the expansion tank though. And I like them in the system anyway, and it keeps the pressure more even when someone opens a faucet.

drip-leg.jpg
 
Last edited:

nikmasteed

New Member
Messages
4
Reaction score
0
Points
1
Location
Pennsylvania
Thanks everyone for the replies!

When the plumber originally came out during the house call, he ballparked that these 4 items would probably be about $200-$350 total. Seemed to make sense to me from the scope he described while I was there next to him. Then a few days later when I'm trying to finalize an appointment for the actual work through the company's office it was $575. They quoted me
$275 for new expansion tank
$150 to change a gate valve out with a new ball valve
$75 to extend the T&P relief tube
$75 to install a proper sediment trap

I knew all this was bunk and told the receptionist to check with her boss-- that sure, if I was calling you out to do these jobs individually that it makes sense, but as part of a total water heater replacement job, that the additional labor for these items on top of that is negligible. They called me back at the end of the day with no budge in price. Unfortunately I need to use this company for the actual water heater,so I scheduled it and figured I'd look for ways to save before they actually come out on Wednesday.

So my plan is:
-Install the ball valve myself, I have everything I need after picking up a quality valve today
-Call BS on the sediment trap, just leave it as is (I have one already!)
-Buy a longer T&P tube myself and just attach it to the existing tank before they get there
-Let them install the hot water heater with new expansion tank

That'll knock my bill down to $275, much more reasonable. Like I said, at the end of the day I had a 13-yr old water heater that is being replaced by a warranty company. After my own direct costs for what I do myself, $300 or so for a brand new water heater and expansion tank will work for me.
 

hj

Master Plumber
Messages
33,599
Reaction score
1,037
Points
113
Location
Cave Creek, Arizona
Website
www.terrylove.com
My heater was also under a home warranty. The "installer" wanted to add $240.00 of "required extras", NONE of which made sense. When I tole him to "install the heater and I would do the extras", he said the company would not allow it. I told him in that case I would install the heater myself and have the company pay me what they would have paid him. They wanted $xx.xx for z 4x3 flue reducer even though the heater comes with a 4x3 draft hood. $xx.xx to revise the T&P valve discharge even though the old one would have been withing 2" of the new T&P valve and they would have had to connect it anyway. $xx.xx for a new gas supply line, again, how would they connect a heater without one. But, when I contacted the warranty company, he had told them it was a natural gas heater, so his "expertise" may not have been top-notch.
 
Top
Hey, wait a minute.

This is awkward, but...

It looks like you're using an ad blocker. We get it, but (1) terrylove.com can't live without ads, and (2) ad blockers can cause issues with videos and comments. If you'd like to support the site, please allow ads.

If any particular ad is your REASON for blocking ads, please let us know. We might be able to do something about it. Thanks.
I've Disabled AdBlock    No Thanks