Gas Supply to Grill

Discussion in 'Plumbing Forum, Professional & DIY Advice' started by jasonmcl, Aug 13, 2009.

  1. jasonmcl

    jasonmcl New Member

    Messages:
    11
    I would like to add a 90,000 BTU natural gas grill to my patio. I already have a 1/2” stub on the patio that is 85 feet from the manifold. The piping is 1/2” and is run out of Parker PGP-8 flexible piping. My main gas meter indicates 5 psig and is run to a Maxitrol 325-5A regulator through 3/4“ flexible pipe that is approximately 50 feet in length. After the Maxitrol regulator there is a manifold consisting of 3 furnaces, water heater, gas log, and stub to patio. My question is can I supply enough gas for my grill through the 1/2 “ line? thanks

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    Last edited: Aug 13, 2009
  2. shacko

    shacko Master Plumber-Gas Fitter

    Messages:
    561
    Location:
    Rosedale, Md
    Gas Supply

    Your question is more complicated than you think. That 5lb.psi you are reading is probably the incoming pressure to the meter, the regulator should tell you the pressure going to your system, from that point you have to figure the total load on the system fixture x fixture and size of pipe till you get to your proposed hook up, then your question can be answered.


    BTW your links do not work, you have to use something like potobucket.
    Last edited: Aug 13, 2009
  3. jadnashua

    jadnashua Retired Defense Industry Engineer xxx

    Messages:
    22,313
    Location:
    New England
    If I had to guess (and if you calculate you won't have to), my guess is no way would you supply the proper amount of gas to that big grill with 1/2" at that distance.

    For one that big, it probably says in the instructions at least a 3/4" line, and you might need more. This might mean a new meter, too.
  4. nhmaster

    nhmaster Master Plumber

    Messages:
    3,189
    Location:
    S. Maine
    call the gas company. they will figure it for you
  5. hj

    hj Moderator & Master Plumber Staff Member

    Messages:
    27,242
    Location:
    Cave Creek, Arizona
    gas company

    Not here. They tell you that if you are qualified to install the line, you are also smart enough to figure the size. Well, you figure it ,and the city inspection department okays it. But normally you would either have 1/4 psi or 2 psi in your system. Houses NEVER have a 5 psi system, that is reserved for large commercial systems.
  6. jasonmcl

    jasonmcl New Member

    Messages:
    11
    Based on charts and the 1/2 psi after the regulator I don't think it will be enough for an 85 ft run Can I tie into the gas line before the regulator in the attic and then add a regulator at the grill? The higher pressure should allow the BTUs needed.
  7. hj

    hj Moderator & Master Plumber Staff Member

    Messages:
    27,242
    Location:
    Cave Creek, Arizona
    gas

    Yes, but it also creates a greater level of expertise and care to install it. Not something most DIYers are qualified for.
  8. jasonmcl

    jasonmcl New Member

    Messages:
    11
    I would definately have a plumber install if a new tie in needs to be added. I am just trying to determine my capabilites.
  9. nhmaster

    nhmaster Master Plumber

    Messages:
    3,189
    Location:
    S. Maine
    Same here, and probably just about everywhere. What I was delicately trying to say is call the gas company and have them do the work. I would have all that CSST removed at the same time, but that's just my natural prejudice against products proven to have failed with tragic results.
  10. hj

    hj Moderator & Master Plumber Staff Member

    Messages:
    27,242
    Location:
    Cave Creek, Arizona
    gas

    The 5 psi on the regulator is its MAXIMUM rated capacity. Over 5 psi it would lockup and shut off all flow. Our gas company does NOTHING after the meter, except tell you that you have a leak and locks the meter until it is repaired and the city approves the lock being removed. The only problem with CSST is that it is not perfect. I had a stucco company shoot 3 staples into one of my installations. It took a leak detection company to find where they were.
  11. dlh

    dlh plumbing consultant

    Messages:
    10
    Location:
    dallas texas
    i dont like the looks of that installation as far as the csst goes. looks very unprofessional
  12. shacko

    shacko Master Plumber-Gas Fitter

    Messages:
    561
    Location:
    Rosedale, Md
    Gas Regulator

    hj: If you get a close look at the regulator you will see 6-10 inches on it a little less tha 1/2lb., that may be why the owner thinks he has 5lb, he's missing those numbers. :)
  13. DavidMc

    DavidMc New Member

    Messages:
    7
    You've got 2psi coming through the meter up to the Maxitrol regulator. Like some others have said, at 85' the 1/2" pipe is not going to carry that load. If you could tie in before the regulator like someone suggested and install a seperate Maxitrol at the grill and it would work. As far as meter size, your borderline at capacity now, but chances are every gas appliance won't be running at the same time anyway, but you should inform the local gas co. just in case they would prefer to change it out.
    I would also think your at or near the capacity of the existing Maxitrol appliance regulator with the other appliances you mentioned.

    Good luck with the project , sounds like a heck of a grill :)


    http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/natural-gas-pipe-calculator-d_1042.html

    http://www.gpta.net/Classes/Gas%20sizing/Gaspipe%20Sizing.pdf
  14. Ian Gills

    Ian Gills Senior Robin Hood Guy

    Messages:
    2,777
    Location:
    USA
    I bet that stub once ran a "gas powered air conditioner".

    My neighbor used to have one of these and for the life of me I cannot figure how it worked.

    Does anyone know?
  15. nhmaster

    nhmaster Master Plumber

    Messages:
    3,189
    Location:
    S. Maine
    2 lbs. is the max inlet to the meter, not necessarily what he has coming into it. The only way to tell for sure is to put a manometer on the down stream side of the meter. 5lbs is the max inlet for the regulator. Either way, messing with gas is a good way to burn the house down. Call a pro and sleep at night.
  16. hj

    hj Moderator & Master Plumber Staff Member

    Messages:
    27,242
    Location:
    Cave Creek, Arizona
    a/c

    It was an adsorbic air conditioner. Some buildings here have gas powered generators or compressors and they use the heat from the exhaust to power the A/C just like the gas did. The old Servel refrigerators and modern RV refrigerators work the same way.
  17. tjbaudio

    tjbaudio Sound and Light Suppervisor for a School District

    Messages:
    162
    Location:
    Wisconsin
    I think there are 2 ways to do it. One is to just use the gas to run an engine to drive the compressor. The other is Absorption Cooling. http://www.gasairconditioning.org/absorption_how_it_works.htm

    I figure any home unit at that age would be the first type. But that is just a guess on my part.
  18. nhmaster

    nhmaster Master Plumber

    Messages:
    3,189
    Location:
    S. Maine
    The gas powered refrigeration cycle uses a combination of ammonia and water instead of the more common refrigerants. The ammonia and water are mixed and the heat from the gas flame boils the ammonia as the ammonia boils the water separates from it and returns to the reservoir. The ammonia moves into the evap coil, and expands to a gas. RV refrigerators use heating elements AC or DC or a propane flame. There is no compressor or for that matter, moving parts.
  19. Lakee911

    Lakee911 I&C Engineer (mostly WWTP)

    Messages:
    1,328
    Location:
    Columbus, OH
    Are these gas powered A/Cs not very common anymore? Why not?
  20. DavidMc

    DavidMc New Member

    Messages:
    7
    Actually 5psi is the max recommended inlet pressure for that meter and it is metering at (or near) 2psi - It has a 2lb pressure compensating index on it. Good advice to call a pro - if your not qualified to do the gas fitting, please call a certified gas fitter.
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