Galvanized Pressure Tank Waterlogging

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Mark_Iowa

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Let me start with the fact that I am new here, but have been reading several discussions regarding galvanized pressure tanks with submersible pumps, but haven't found anything that matches my situation.

The problem I am working on is a galvanized pressure tank that waterlogs quickly (weekly). The short term workaround has been to drain the tank and repeat. The pressure tank is in the basement of a farm house about 100 - 150 feet from the well.

The well is over 100' deep and the well casing ends in a pit a few feet above the pitless adapter. On top of the well casing (several feet below ground level) is a check valve with 90 degree elbow. In the house is another check valve and is plumbed into the top of the tank. On the side of the pressure tank is an air control valve and the discharge is at the bottom. (Attached pictures of the well supply coming into the pressure tank)

IMG_20140914_172933017.jpg
IMG_20140914_172958098.jpg


The theory is that the check valve in the house is leaking back to the well. In this case it would be leaking air from the top of the tank back to the well and eventually waterlogging the pressure tank. I have the pieces and intend to replace this check valve this week. Does this theory make sense, is there another issue, something else I should be checking?

Thanks in advance for constructive assistance.
Mark
 

LLigetfa

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The theory is that the check valve in the house is leaking back to the well.
Do you have any anecdotal evidence to support that theory? In the absence of air, the pressure would plummet with no water use. It also suggests that you would have two failed checkvalves and a leak.

Do you know how the airmaker is setup? Does the other check have a snifter or are there two bleeders in the drop pipe?
 

Craigpump

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You are putting a precharge of air in the tank with a compressor after you drain it, right?
 

Mark_Iowa

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Thank you for the feedback.

I will check for an air leak and hopefully will find something.

In regards to pre-charge/airmaker setup. There is no airmaker to be found. The supply line runs from the top of the pressure tank straight to the well pit.

I am not aware of anyway to pre-charge this tank. Can you elaborate on how to pre-charge a galvanized pressure tank?

I made a crude drawing of what is present in the well pit (camera does not do it justice). I was incorrect stating there was a pitless adapter.
Well Pit.png
 

Cacher_Chick

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There must be bleeders in the drop pipe or a snifter valve in the line to the tank. These are the 2 methods commonly used to allow air into the system.

Draining the tank and refilling it will work for a short period of time if there is no leak allowing air to escape. Eventually, the air would be absorbed into the water and you will be waterlogged unless the bleeder or snifter system is in place and working properly.
 

Reach4

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There must be bleeders in the drop pipe or a snifter valve in the line to the tank. These are the 2 methods commonly used to allow air into the system.

I thought those two things worked together-- a bleeder to let some water out down to a level, and the snifter to let a dose of air in to replace the water. No?
 

Texas Wellman

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From the way it's drawn the 90 elbow and check valve on the top should be your "snifter" or vacuum release. Bleeder is in the well.

From your pictures my money's on the nipple just upstream of the checkvalve. Galv. into brass = corrosion.
 

LLigetfa

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From the way it's drawn the 90 elbow and check valve on the top should be your "snifter" or vacuum release. Bleeder is in the well.
If the check at the tank is not holding, then pressure persists at the wellhead check and at the bleeder preventing them from making air.

Either the air is being lost as fast as it is made, or the airmaker is not making air. The OP needs to hone up on diagnosing skills to determine which it is. We can stare at pictures all day and not be any the wiser.
 

LLigetfa

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Some brands of checkvalves have upstream and downstream ports where a gauge or snifter can be screwed in. The pictures are too poor to see if such ports exist.
 

Craigpump

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I'm thinking there is no snifter or bleeder, just a standard tank that needs to be serviced correctly by someone who knows how.
 

Mark_Iowa

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You are putting a precharge of air in the tank with a compressor after you drain it, right?

Can you direct me to additional information to support this suggestion? The instructions for the air volume control state the tank should be at atmospheric pressure. Conversations with professionals have also advised that for a galvanized tank (no diaphragm, no bladder) the starting point is at atmospheric pressure.
 

Mark_Iowa

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Some brands of checkvalves have upstream and downstream ports where a gauge or snifter can be screwed in. The pictures are too poor to see if such ports exist.

Ports would be helpful, but they do not exist on the old checkvalve.
 

Mark_Iowa

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From the way it's drawn the 90 elbow and check valve on the top should be your "snifter" or vacuum release. Bleeder is in the well.

From your pictures my money's on the nipple just upstream of the checkvalve. Galv. into brass = corrosion.

I agree that the "snifter" in this installation is the checkvalve on top of the well casing and its purpose is to drain the casing of the well.

I think the snifter was not installed at the house given the distance from the house (100 - 150') as that would supply more air to the tank than necessary. In addition draining the well casing in this installation reduces the chances of freezing.



I replaced the air volume control valve, checkvalve and the nipples on either side at the pressure tank and the problem still exists. Next step will be checking the snifter in the well pit. I should have plumbed in a port and pressure gauge on the pump side of the checkvalve, but in this case hindsight is 20/20.
 

Reach4

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You have a well pit. The well seal and pipes are presumably below the frost line, so the purpose of draining part of the drop pipe would not be freeze-related.

Does your well pit ever flood? (mine did.) If not sure, maybe put something in there to detect that. If the pit floods, water can potentially leak past the well seal or into the vent, contaminating your well. The cure for all of that is to get the casing extended above ground and getting a pitless. If you get into such major work, you would maybe also get rid of the galvanized pressure tank system and go to a diaphragm pressure tank.
 

LLigetfa

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So if you're not losing the air as you initially thought, then the problem is your airmaker is not making air. Either the snifter is not opening or the bleeder is not bleeding.
 

Mark_Iowa

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You have a well pit. The well seal and pipes are presumably below the frost line, so the purpose of draining part of the drop pipe would not be freeze-related.

Does your well pit ever flood? (mine did.) If not sure, maybe put something in there to detect that. If the pit floods, water can potentially leak past the well seal or into the vent, contaminating your well. The cure for all of that is to get the casing extended above ground and getting a pitless. If you get into such major work, you would maybe also get rid of the galvanized pressure tank system and go to a diaphragm pressure tank.

Thanks for the comments.

I agree, the primary purpose of draining the casing is to introduce air into the system for normal operation of the pressure tank. It does flood occasionally and the current setup is not ideal and what you describe is best approach and has been discusses for a while, but "if it's not broke don't fix it" has prevailed.
 
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