Gallionella ferruginea...

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splintergroupie

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That's the name of the critters infesting my well water, aka IRB, according to a lab test. Through my extensive reading of this forum and the Net, my options seem to be:

* treat the well water with a pellet dropper, maybe destroy the pump, etc.
* treat the incoming water with inline oxidation, maybe allow IRB to destroy the pump, etc.

I've already shocked it twice after i noticed crud started appearing in my tap water a few days after the well was drilled, but the color and crud returned a few days after each attempt.

I was all set to order above-ground chlorination/mixing tank except for the well production going down from 15 gpm right after it was drilled in late May, to 10 gpm in late June, then returning to 15 gpm last week after i got my irrigation system going for eight hours/night, which helps to keep the iron-y to a manageable level for showers/cleaning, but it's too icky to drink.

My working theory - feel free to fill it full of holes - is that the IRB had already started plugging my pump, but the subsequent heavy watering schedule tended to whack that growth loose. Hence, my concern returned about treating my well water in situ compared to POE.

I'm wondering if anyone sells a system of using inline oxidation (recirculating perhaps?) that feeds dilute chlorine or H202 into the well water, both protecting the pump from IRB while obviating the problem of concentrated pellets forming a bridge club or communing at the bottom of the well. Should i quit my day job and invent this? ;)

Well is 270'; static at 126'; 6" steel casing; 1" PVC drop pipe; 1-1/2 hp F&W submersible pump rated at 11 gpm, according to the driller. The bore was producing 30 gpm while the driller was pumping it. Wellhead is in my yard; pressure tank is indoors, about 60' away. Temps from -30º to 100º. I'm irrigating 3/4 acre including fruit trees, couple producing greenhouses. I have a private septic system with no issues.

Some water test results:

The Kinetico guy came out, said no one around here has IRB, so not to bother to test for it. <smile> His numbers:

Hardness: 5
pH: 6.7
TDS: 190
Total Iron: 3.7 (Ferrous: .8; Ferric: 2.9)

Next up: the Culligan man told me a lot of people around here have IRB, that he'd install an inline injector and mixing tank, an AN, and iron filter. I asked if the chlorine would help my pH number enough to forego a AN, and he said chlorine would actually make my water more acidic. Huh? His numbers:

Hardness: 6
pH: 7.0
TDS: 200
Iron: 1.4 (no breakdown for ferrous/ferric)

My own tests (2), this morning, with test strips from The Clean Water Store:

Alkalinity: 80
Hardness: 3
pH: 7
Iron: 3

The numbers are pretty inconsistent (with the exception of my two tests' agreement), with various opinions as to whether my pH is a problem for any sort of treatment. Further: no nitrate/nitrite, or copper, but i do have .008 arsenic.

I suppose i first have to make some sort of guess about whether the pump might die more quickly from IRB or chlorine corrosion, then think about precipitating/removing the iron. Since you all are better schooled in the art of water than i am, i'd welcome some more input to my pin-the-tail-on-the-donkey endeavor.

And after disinfection...what else is recommended, and in what order? Installation will be DIY.

Thanks,

Colleen
 
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Gary Slusser

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How much slime (thickness) do you have in your toilet tanks, at and below the water line? It can be from clear to black.

Use a finger tip at the water line and then flush and wipe the palm of a hand from the water line down. You may not have enough IRB to worry about.

IRB doesn't kill pumps, it can block up the holes in the inlet screen but that's all I've ever seen it do. And you can clean that off wit ha wire brush or replace the screen.

How old is the well?

How long has water been used from it?
 

splintergroupie

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My well has been used continuously since 2003, originally drilled in '98. I had sandy, clean water at 144', but it chewed up the Myers pump after ~5 years of use. The well driller - the same company that had drilled the original well - said he could get me sand-free water. He pulled up a joke of a "well screen" out of the casing: a PVC pipe with ten slots cut in it with a circular saw along one side.

If i'd known then what i know now, i'd have insisted a proper well screen be installed before the new pump, and be done with it. But the drill rig was there and before i knew it, we were into an aquifer known in these parts to carry plenty of iron, which i would have thought he'd want to avoid. Later, the driller got pretty hostile when i suggested in a note with my payment that perhaps he should disinfect his steel and the well before leaving a site. He threw a fit about my shocking the well myself, said it shouldn't be done, only pumped clean. BTW, this is all part of the bottom of ancient Glacial Lake Missoula, no bedrock, just sand/gravel/volcanic ash.

I've actually considered grouting the well back to the former level, getting it re-perfed, then starting fresh, if i can't get a handle on treating the present water. Or drill a new well when i get the $$$$, then spec a proper screen.

Slime in the lowboy toilet had been rust colored, with build-up in the less turbulent areas toward the front of the tank. This week i noticed black streaks in the bowl, but i have no sulfur odor so far. One thing for sure is that the build-up is accelerating, with shorter amounts of time between cleanings.

IRB may not kill a pump, but if the build-up keeps it from pumping water, the effect is the same, and having a pump rig pull onto my lawn to periodically pull my pump to clean it is a non-starter both aesthetically and financially.
 

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I have seen IRB on two occasions totally fill a pumps impellers to the point that it quit producing water. I'm not saying yours may be that bad, but it can happen.

I do not like pellet droppers... period. Chlorine above ground if no other treatment will work is acceptable, however I like the feed pumps that inject a mixture of water and bleach. This coupled with an iron filter should make your iron disappear.

I wouldn't be terribly confident that an iron filter would get all the iron with the conflicting PH reports. With a PH of 7.2 or above an iron filter will work great. Anything below that will just get progressivly worse as the PH goes down.
 

splintergroupie

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Hi, Speedbump. I believe i've read every post of yours on this forum on the pellet dropper subject, as well as that nasty ozone deal, so i know your objections and can completely understand them. I know both you and Gary treat above-ground, though each of you prefers different methods of chlorine injection.

The issue of what happens underground while the aboveground water is being treated is what seems to get glossed over. Is pulling a pump when it quits producing the fall-back position? Maybe i'll have to get used to that idea, but it seems untenable to me for now.

As i mentioned, if i hadn't seen the gpm fall by a third in a month's time, then come back with greatly increased pumping, i wouldn't have had second thoughts about treating aboveground. As a pump guy, what do you think of my WAG that the drop-off in gpm could be attributed to biofouling, or are there more likely factors that don't indicate a progressive failure from biofouling?

Since i have ~150' of water column for a pellet to fall through, would that make enough of a difference in its chances of dissolving? (I have no idea how long it takes for pellets to dissolve.) There's a torque arrestor, but no wire guards installed to hang up on.

I just rec'd another "free" report on my water: pH of 6.7, iron at 1.3 The woman insisted that black slime is manganese and her softener would remove it, but to be sure, i could throw a couple gallons of bleach in the well along with some chlorine pucks for good measure, then let it sit overnight. I'm extraordinarily grateful for the effort folks put out on forums like this to educate consumers.
 
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Speedbump

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On the reduced then improved gpm rating. I'm not sure what caused it, but with the pumps I described, bringing them back to the shop and running them in the test bench did not flush them out. We had to let them dry out. The iron becoming dry would then flake off and running them in the test bench cleaned them out well enough to get them back to their normal performance. Sure made a mess of my test bench though.

The pellets will put chlorine on the entire inside of your well from top to bottom. They will eat anything made of metal that is in your well.

I have only ran into a few of these things in my career and all the wells including any metal within 10 feet of the well were just eaten up with rust. Some of the casing was actually gone in areas. You could actually look through it in places.
 

splintergroupie

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Is there an alternative between letting a pump foul to the point of not running from not treating the water in the bore, and having a casing eaten up from doing so?

The casings that you saw that were eaten up...was there a lot of irrigation taking place? I've read that pellet droppers can drop a load of pellets in the well too fast under such conditions, but i've seen a control that has an "interrupter", meaning if the pump runs over 15 minutes at a time, the pellets cease dropping. Does that change anything in your estimation?
 

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Trust me, one pellet a day will do enough damage in a short time that you'll wish you had never had one.

With your level of iron and what you've explained, I don't think you have that serious of a problem.
 

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Thanks, speedbump.

Would you be so kind as to tell me how you would set up a system for my water? Chlorine, calcite (optional?), followed by an iron filter? Any recommendations on type of iron filter for my pH levels if i don't have a calcite filter?
 
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Speedbump

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The Neutralizer would make the iron filter work it's best. After the Calcite, you would inject the chlorine (provided you do have IRB) into a mixing tank, then the water would go into the iron filter. The Calcite (neutralizer) will make your water a bit harder, but you can always deal with that after you get rid of the iron.

If I had a choice between removing 10 gpg of hardness or 1.5 ppm of iron, I would remove the iron first.
 

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I've decided to try shocking the well a couple more times, just to be sure i've exhausted the possibility of ridding the bore, etc. of the IRB in case the driller infected it. I definitely have IRB per the lab results i got last week and the increasing gunk in my water. If i weren't irrigating as much, i'd be skeered about what would be coming through my tap.

If that doesn't do the trick, i'll be fillng my utility room with a mini water-treatment plant. Thanks for your assistance.
 

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That's what I would do, the two wells I encountered IRB in here, shocking fixed both of them. I don't agree that filtration is the way to go when you can kill the bacteria once and for all. And if you read up on it, I think you will find the bacteria exists in the casing, not in the aquifer.
 

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I've decided to try shocking the well a couple more times, just to be sure i've exhausted the possibility of ridding the bore, etc. of the IRB in case the driller infected it. I definitely have IRB per the lab results i got last week and the increasing gunk in my water. If i weren't irrigating as much, i'd be skeered about what would be coming through my tap.

If that doesn't do the trick, i'll be fillng my utility room with a mini water-treatment plant. Thanks for your assistance.
IRB and other reducing types of bacteria live in and on the ground, in and under water; including ground water.

It is a large group of both anaerobic and aerobic types. Other types of bacteria live in the ground and ground water also.

Shocking a well consistently can cause serious and expensive water quality, increased bacteria caused encrustations, blocked casing screening and pump inlet screen (meaning reduced production), pump, cable etc. etc. problems.

Reducing bacteria love to live in high velocity water streams, like screening and pump inlet screens. When disturbed, they from protective slime that gets hard over time forming the encrustations which prevents chlorine from penetrating it in the future. Then you get into well cleaning and rehabilitation if you can find anyone to do either. Most drillers will want to drill a new well instead.

For proof of all that and more info, roam around the site here;
http://www.groundwaterscience.com/the-old-gws-site.html
 

splintergroupie

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If caught early enough...

I found that site most informative in my research on the problem. This quote from it, in fact, is one of the reasons i'm trying to do something about the IRB right now instead of letting them build up too much more:

If we've got bacterial problems, then what?

(1) If caught early, regular treatment using chlorination (coliform contamination) or chelating organic acids (iron biofouling) and stepped-up vigilance can keep bacterial problems under control. For any treatment, do before and after analyses to judge the effect of the treatment.

(2) In light cases of biofouling, or transient coliform contamination, shock chlorination works. Recirculating chlorine with a hose is enough to mix the chlorine throughout the well to achieve a good exposure throughout the well bore. Adjust the chlorine load to 50 mg/L lethal residual dose (measuring the residual is more sure than calculating a dose), acidified with vinegar (or acetic or glycolic) to pH 5.5-6.5. Test the return flow in the circulating hose. Pool chlorine test kits are sufficient for measuring residual and pH test strips for pH.

The lab test results i had said i had "light occurrence" of G. ferruginea, so i'm going to take another couple whacks at the issue with shock chlorination before giving up on the chance of eliminating it.
 

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Yeah, i guess the definition of "works" in their phrase "shock chlorination works" could be ambiguous. Some folks on this site claim to have eliminated it, though. When this well was at the previous depth, i'd contaminated it pretty badly with sulphur bacteria by using soaker hoses without a backflow preventer. Gawd, what a stench! Everyone told me then i'd never get rid of it, but i did, with shocking.

Since my well was deepened and the IPB became apparent, i've talked to several folks in my area who've had wells drilled into the same aquifer my well presently draws from; some have IRB and some don't. Most well drillers in this area with whom i've spoken aren't too sophisticated and take this bacteria stuff lightly, if they are aware of it at all. My well drillers insist that well shocking is hooey, that just about any problem can be fixed through overpumping.

I think it's within the realm of the possible that IRB was introduced. I'm not claiming a certainty, but it's worth a shot to not have to deal with biofouling issues. If it were introduced, perhaps it can be un-introduced, as i did with the sulfur bacteria.
 

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The bacteria live in the ground and groundwater, that's why that site says "control" it, you can not eliminate it.
__________________

My findings tell me that IRB can live in surface water supplies but not in the actual un-polutted aquifer. That's why there is so much talk about proper grouting of drilled wells. Especially rotored wells.

I'm thinking, these drillers in your area since they poo poo the bacteria may be the reason it's there in the first place. They may be introducing it with their tools.
 

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My findings tell me that IRB can live in surface water supplies but not in the actual un-polutted aquifer. That's why there is so much talk about proper grouting of drilled wells. Especially rotored wells.

I'm thinking, these drillers in your area since they poo poo the bacteria may be the reason it's there in the first place. They may be introducing it with their tools.
Also tell them that a lot of government agencies and many well drillers, the NGWA, Driller Magazine etc. etc. say grouting fails.

They also mention that some older wells that are still in use have never been grouted.

Recently they have been saying drilling equipment etc. should be disinfected so they don't unintentionally cross contaminate by introducing bacteria from one well into another. And I'm sure that there is something to that cross contamination theory.

They also are saying the well is supposed to be shocked if it is worked on for any reason like pump or drop pipe replacement.

And yet, although I haven't kept up on it the last few years (the NGWA and associated web sites and magazines), I have never heard that the cross contamination theory has been proven anywhere.

Which IMO is very easy to do by finding survivable reducing type bacteria on drill rod etc. and then a well with no reducing type bacteria in it's water and bobbing the rod up and down in the well etc. and seeing a positive water test a few days/weeks later containing the same type of bacteria.

The problem with IRB, SRB and MRB not living naturally in an aquifier/groundwater that isn't polluted, is the the guy that proved his theory that there was some form of bacteria that ate iron, like the Titanic. He named it IRB, and then he went on to invent the BARTS tests that are used to identify groups of bacteria that eat iron/steel and other metals, produce slime and odor problems, under water or not.

From the link below;
***************
Manganese, Iron, and Gallianella bacteria as a water odor source: If your source water is high in iron and or manganese, then you may have odors that emanate from bacteria like Gallianella. These naturally occurring bacteria can feed from the available stream of iron and manganese in a water supply, creating foul odors and sometimes plugging, or bio fouling water filters and well.

A BART, or Biological Activity Reaction Test can determine if this type of bacteria is present in your water supply. You probably can't get rid of them because they are normal flora, (naturally occurring bacteria), but annual chlorination of your well will help keep them in check. .
*****************
http://www.inspect-ny.com/water/Water_Odor_Diagnosis.htm
 

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Don't know how to spell it but somebody is re-creating another Typhoid Mary Geeeeeeeese Upper
 
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