Funky S-trap

Discussion in 'Plumbing Forum, Professional & DIY Advice' started by danrogers, Jun 28, 2011.

  1. danrogers

    danrogers Master Home Inspector

    Messages:
    1
    Location:
    Virginia beach, VA
    I did a home inspection on a flipped home where they had a licensed master plumber but in a new bathroom. I hit them on the S-trap under the bathroom sink (first picture) P1010205 (Small).JPG . The agent asked to have the S-trap changed to a P trap. The second picture P1010190 (Small).JPG shows it is now an S trap with a vent. I also reported the vent stack is too short because it's below the drain flange.
    By the way. They could have used a regular plumbing vent through the roof but they didn't.
    Can somebody tell me if this plumber is all washed up?
  2. Rich B

    Rich B DIY Senior Member

    Messages:
    283
    Location:
    New Jersey
    I have a similar setup under my kitchen sink......

    I installed it myself.... It never had a vent before and was an S trap and always drained slow.

    There was no way to get up thru the roof with a proper vent. The drain is in the floor not the wall and the sink is on the first floor.. so I added a Studor AAV. Mine is above the bottom of the sink and the trap arm is longer....

    Mine sink drains perfect...no smells.....5 years at least working fine.....
  3. johnjh2o1

    johnjh2o1 Plumbing Contractor for 49 years

    Messages:
    1,143
    Location:
    South*East
    In many ares studor vents are legal. The only requirement is that they are accessible. They do not have to be above the flood level of the fixture.

    John
  4. Gary Swart

    Gary Swart In the Trades

    Messages:
    7,384
    Location:
    Yakima WA
    Have you guys noticed the Kohler TV ad where they depict a vanity sink on the top floor that has no trap at all? Drain goes down below the sink then elbows 90 deg for a few inches then elbows straight down and through the floor. I know it's just an advertisement for their Kohler products, but the lack of trap really jumped out at me.
  5. cacher_chick

    cacher_chick Test, Don't Guess!

    Messages:
    3,259
    Location:
    Land of Cheese
    The mechanical vent is allowed in some places and not in others. IMO, it makes sense to use one when installing a real vent is not cost effective for a remodel, but I believe it should be avoided whenever possible.

    IMO, one improvement to the one in the picture would be to get the vent up as high as possible under the cabinet to help prevent it from becoming contaminated if their were a minor back-up. If any solids get stuck up in the AAV, it will not seal and then the sewer gas will be leaking in.
  6. plumber2011

    plumber2011 Expert Plumber

    Messages:
    70
    Location:
    Boston, Massachusetts
    Hi all:

    I don't know...I see this as a vented STRAP. I mean, doesn't the vent have to be at least 2 pipe diameters from the wier of the trap? Here, that would mean that the trap arm needs to be a minimum of 3 inches (1.5" pipe x 2), otherwise, it's an STRAP, right?

    Also note that the manufacturer's of AAVS only require that the AAV be installed a minimum of 4-6" above the crown of the trap so the height of the AAV is OK, but I do agree with Cacher_Chick that the AAV is better up higher, for sure!

    That's my thoughts here!
  7. hj

    hj Moderator & Master Plumber Staff Member

    Messages:
    27,032
    Location:
    Cave Creek, Arizona
    quote; would mean that the trap arm needs to be a minimum of 3 inches

    The DISTANCE between the trap's "U" and the riser would have to be 3", not the branch pipe itself. IN the second picture, it appears that the water lines "grew" since the valves are now higher above the floor than in the first picture. If the original "plumber" installed that "S" trap, then he was NOT a very good plumber, assuming he was actually a plumber in the first place. but then, how many "flippers" hire professional tradesmen for their projects. They look for low price first, and accept whatever quality they get as a bonus.
    Last edited: Jun 29, 2011
  8. Tom Sawyer

    Tom Sawyer In the Trades

    Messages:
    3,265
    Location:
    Maine
    the distance from the trap ell to the san tee needs to be twice the pipe diameter or you have an s trap

    The height of the AAV is fine although I like to get them as high as possible.

    I doubt that a licensed plumber did the work. How many plumbers use blue waterproof glue on an interior joint?

    Nice PEX job also. So neat and professional looking LOL

    Ever wonder why the trade is dying? Perfect example above. Nobody gives a crap what things look like as long as they work which by the way the S trap in the first picture would have worked just fine, just not to code.
  9. BobL43

    BobL43 DIY Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,794
    Location:
    Long Island, NY
    Trap glue job


    Hi Tom, you brought up something I was wondering about: on a solvent glue PVC trap like that, where it would show, what is the correct glue to use without the primer color showing? I will be installing a pedestal sink where the trap would be visible, and was not planning on using a chrome trap, as I think the white PVC would look OK with the white china sink. Is it OK to use the clear solvent glue by itself for a trap?
    Thanks.
  10. Tom Sawyer

    Tom Sawyer In the Trades

    Messages:
    3,265
    Location:
    Maine
    If you must use a glued trap you can use clear glue and primer or a plastic tubular trap that uses slip joints but I think you will find that chrome looks a whole lot better.
  11. hj

    hj Moderator & Master Plumber Staff Member

    Messages:
    27,032
    Location:
    Cave Creek, Arizona
    I REMOVE sch 40 sink drains and traps, I do not install them. Chrome tubular traps make a much nicer installation. The whole installation from the oversized pipe openings without trim escutcheons to "S" trap and the "spaghetti" like water piping smacks of DIYer or handyman, NOT any self respecting professional plumber. If I did something like that I would be sure to leave one of my competitors business cards there.
    Last edited: Jun 29, 2011
  12. Tom Sawyer

    Tom Sawyer In the Trades

    Messages:
    3,265
    Location:
    Maine
    And don't trying to snake a glued up trap piss you right off
  13. BobL43

    BobL43 DIY Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,794
    Location:
    Long Island, NY
    thanks guys, sounds like good advice. she wants oil rubbed bronze fittings in the new bathroom anyway, so brass it will be for the trap as well in the ORB finish and angle stops as well.
  14. hj

    hj Moderator & Master Plumber Staff Member

    Messages:
    27,032
    Location:
    Cave Creek, Arizona
    quote; And don't trying to snake a glued up trap piss you right

    Not a bit, because my SawZall is the FIRST tool used on it. After that the snake goes right in.
  15. BobL43

    BobL43 DIY Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,794
    Location:
    Long Island, NY
    Well if I HAD used a PVC trap, it would have been the type where the U piece is removable. I know what I posted originally and saw that photo, but I meant the solvent joint at the arm into the wall santee, and was concerned as you mentioned above that the trim plate would not cover that joint. Anyway, it will be a brass trap when I do it. I love my Sawzall too. It is an older 2 speed model from '79
  16. hj

    hj Moderator & Master Plumber Staff Member

    Messages:
    27,032
    Location:
    Cave Creek, Arizona
    quote; the distance from the trap ell to the san tee needs to be twice the pipe diameter or you have an s trap

    It is IMPOSSIBLE to have an "S" trap if there is a vent off the top of the tee regardless how long, or short, the trap arm is.
  17. wjcandee

    wjcandee Wise One

    Messages:
    1,934
    Location:
    New York, NY
    Probably the best line ever delivered on this forum by anyone. Great comment, HJ!!
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