Franke Drain Pipe size problem

Discussion in 'Plumbing Forum, Professional & DIY Advice' started by closer, Dec 11, 2009.

  1. closer

    closer New Member

    Messages:
    53
    Location:
    Ontario
    I am about to instal a Franke CWX161 work centre sink but have run into a problem... I am using the mechanical drain assembly under the large sink and the regular drain assembly under the smaller collander sink... the regular drain pipe fits in nicely with the ABS compression fitting to the 1.5" ABS pipe... however the other drain assembly is a 40mm (not 38mmm like the regular one) polypropylene drain pipe that nobody in this town seems to have a compression fitting for.. the normal 1.5" compression fitting is too tight (barring lubing and forcing it on)... one guy suggested that i shave off a portion of the compression fitting (that didn't sound right) and Franke reps told me they weren't plumbers so couldn't advise me either on why the drain pipe was a different size or as to how to get it to work!

    so far I'm not impressed! but I do need any help you can give me!
  2. hj

    hj Moderator & Master Plumber Staff Member

    Messages:
    27,247
    Location:
    Cave Creek, Arizona
    drain

    Need a picture to see what you are working with, although from the picture I cannot see why you cannot use a different drain strainer/assembly, if the one you have does not work.
    Last edited: Dec 11, 2009
  3. closer

    closer New Member

    Messages:
    53
    Location:
    Ontario
    [​IMG]
    #1 - 40mm drain pipe coming from the large sink
    #2 - 38mm drain pipe coming from the collander - fits fine with normal compression fitting and 1.5" ABS
    #3 - dishwasher will drain here... double drawer KA thus the two white coils
    #4 - turned opposite... where #1 drain pipe will connect to
    #5 - plunger that operates the drain plug for large sink
    #6 - 90º ABS to basement and line that includes vent stack

    all installed on island.. I still have to figure out a way of getting through the tile below the island... but that's another story!
  4. closer

    closer New Member

    Messages:
    53
    Location:
    Ontario
    ok... I think I may have a solution... as long as I can use ABS glue with polypropylene and ABS together... I found a 45º ABS joint that is pretty snug that as long as I use glue as well then it should be leak proof... anyone know?
  5. hj

    hj Moderator & Master Plumber Staff Member

    Messages:
    27,247
    Location:
    Cave Creek, Arizona
    pipe

    You CANNOT glue polypropylene pipe. And "pretty snug" will usually not be "watertight".
  6. closer

    closer New Member

    Messages:
    53
    Location:
    Ontario
    ok... that saved me from a disaster... so any idea on how I am going to be able to join these two pieces of pipe, cuz the regular compression fittings are too tight unless I start sanding down the inside of the ABS fitting... I can barely squeeze the white ring of the fitting over the Poly pipe as it is, and there is no way barring modification that the poly pipe will fit in the second half of the ABS fitting...
  7. johnjh2o1

    johnjh2o1 Plumbing Contractor for 49 years

    Messages:
    1,143
    Location:
    South*East
  8. closer

    closer New Member

    Messages:
    53
    Location:
    Ontario
    thanks john... will hunt around town today to see if anyone has this in stock... do you know if HD carries this as a stock item... I think I recall seeing something like this at one point, although not sure if this size was available...
  9. closer

    closer New Member

    Messages:
    53
    Location:
    Ontario
    just came across a site that explains the different properties of plastics etc here and I think the Franke folks might have told me the wrong name of the drain pipe material... I'm sure the guy said polypropylene but from the chart at the link above it seems to be more of a polybutylene piping as it is definitely grey and not beige like the chart explains... regardless, I think your solution will work as long as I can find this fernco coupling... thanks again john
  10. closer

    closer New Member

    Messages:
    53
    Location:
    Ontario
    so this is what I have come up with but have been advised that it may not pass code due to "S" in ABS???... what does this mean?... below floor level is a double ABS line that the downdrain ABS hooks up with, one line of which goes to the vent stack
    [​IMG]
  11. Terry

    Terry Administrator Staff Member

    Messages:
    15,416
    Location:
    Bothell, Washington
    No worries. You live a long ways from me.
    It will only smell in your kitchen, not mine.

    Because the trap is not vented, when the water drains, it will siphon the trap dry, then your wife will start complaining about the sewer smells while she's cooking dinner.

    A fix for that would be to add an AAV on top of a santee, the top for the vent, and the side of the tee for the p-trap.

    This is how most plumbers would have plumbed your sink
    [​IMG]
    The drain going down should have been 2" and have a clean out.
    Yours is 1-1/2", which hasn't been code since the 50's
    You're about 60 years late on your piping.
    You also haven't high looped or air gaped your dishwasher.
    Last edited: Dec 12, 2009
  12. closer

    closer New Member

    Messages:
    53
    Location:
    Ontario
    with this project we actually brought in a "real" plumber to start the job as we were taking down a bearing wall that encased the waste vent stack... and this is what he came up with...
    [​IMG]
    this is just below the island and my intent was to hook up what I had in my previous picture to this assembly thinking that it would provide me with the necessary air to get the water flushing down the system... is there any way I can then work with this?... can I run everything down below the studs and try and create a P trap below the floor and hook it up to the config shown here?
  13. closer

    closer New Member

    Messages:
    53
    Location:
    Ontario
    ok ... so this is the new "dry" setup showing picts of island as well as the drain and vent pipes below the island

    pict 1 - under cabinet... with DW hooked up on the horizontal run and white drainage hoses would be in large loop on back wall to ensure flow
    [​IMG]

    pict 2 - from island plumbing to Ptrap... hole (black arrow) shows where line from island plumbing would come down, make a 90º, go through joist, and make a 90º into the Ptrap which would hook up with the line (within 10") of where it diverts to the drainage line and the vent stack
    [​IMG]

    pict 3 - a larger view of the Ptrap to main ABS line in place right now
    [​IMG]

    is this an ok setup or do I need additional changes?

    is the angle (can't be vertical due to close proximity of the drain line from left sink to sink bottom) of the DW ABS ok... it will probably be about a 70º angle once in place with this setup unless I move it closer to the main vertical line
  14. export!

    export! DIY Member

    Messages:
    90
    Location:
    Ontario, Canada
    I don't think most codes allow the P-trap under the floor but I see it all the time. Is that a horizontal vent under the flood rim? Could be a no-no too.


    PS I am not a plumber. Just chiming in.
    Last edited: Dec 13, 2009
  15. Doherty Plumbing

    Doherty Plumbing Journeyman & Gas Fitter

    Messages:
    810
    Location:
    Penticton, BC
    You can put a p-trap under a floor no problem. If it's not readily accessible it must be a glued trap not a union trap.

    If you couldn't put traps in floors how could you ever put a trap on a shower or a bath tub :D
  16. closer

    closer New Member

    Messages:
    53
    Location:
    Ontario
    its readily accessible... suspended ceiling... I am also looking at this as a setup which (to me anyway) would allow me to get the water heading down quicker on the much larger left sink as well as allow more room for the DW SanWye... I will be doing a large high loop of the white DW drain pipe as well...
    [​IMG]

    another question... is it better to put the Ptrap directly below the down drain and then 90º to the right, through the joist and another 90º left to the vent/drain assembly, or as I show it in the picture previously posted?
  17. johnjh2o1

    johnjh2o1 Plumbing Contractor for 49 years

    Messages:
    1,143
    Location:
    South*East
    By placing the trap under the floor you are exceeding the allowed distance between the trap and it's fixture.

    John
  18. Terry

    Terry Administrator Staff Member

    Messages:
    15,416
    Location:
    Bothell, Washington
    And that's why nobody does under the floor traps for kitchen sinks.
    The tall tailpiece allows the trap to siphon.

    You still have it run in 1-1/2" pipe.
    The lower part should have been run in 2"
    You have also used a santee below the floor where a wye fitting should have been used.

    If you wanted to AAV it, I would have run a 2" waste line over using waste fittings, that means wyes and long turn 90's

    If you wanted to Island Vent it, it would look like the picture below.

    [​IMG]

    This drawing below would work if an AAV was above the santee and the santee was 2"x1-1/2" x 1-1/2"
    The verical below the tee would all be 2"
    [​IMG]
    Last edited: Dec 13, 2009
  19. Doherty Plumbing

    Doherty Plumbing Journeyman & Gas Fitter

    Messages:
    810
    Location:
    Penticton, BC
    Ah, Up here we're allowed a 4' maximum on our fixture outlet pipes.
  20. rmelo99

    rmelo99 Network Engineer

    Messages:
    349
    Location:
    Connecticut
    Can someone tell me what the name is for that WYE piece on the dishwasher drain hose is? Also where can I find one, who makes it.

    Is it suitable for a dual dishwasher setup?
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