Flushometer Brands

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Chris_G

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OK, this is my first post here. I want to state right up front that I'm not a plumber or a contractor...

I prefer manual flushometers over tank toilets. I have two issues I need to resolve before making a final purchase decision:

1.) How to determine which flushometer hardware is compatible with which toilet bowl.

2.) Finding a flushometer that I'm satisfied with, from a design perspective.

Regarding the second issue- So far, I'm most inclined to either the Sloan Crown II, or the Sloan GEM... however, I've seen flushometers in some upscale hotel/restaurant bathrooms that have even cleaner lines/less detail than these two models. Though I'm detail oriented enough that I noticed, and took note of them, I wasn't in the market for one at the time, so I didn't get the brand. Now that I'm in the market, I'm not finding these, shall I call them "designer flushometers".

My suspicion is that they are European manufactured, and probably have some other name rather than "flushometer". Does anyone know what "flushometer" is in Italian?

Thank you for any assistance.

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hj

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You may have been looking at a Toto valve. For ease and service, longevity, and parts availability, you cannot beat the Sloan/Zurn valves. Zurn being a Sloan knockoff.
 

Chris_G

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thank you

I've looked at Toto on their website at:
Home - TotoUSA.com

They do have a selection of flushometers under their commercial products, but they're not really what I'm looking for.

Once I stopped searching under "flushometer" and changed my search string to "flush valve", I've found some other manufacturers. Right now I'm limiting my advanced google search to seach by a specific domain sufix (".it") to seach only in Italy. That yielded the Italian plumbing manufacturer named Bocchi:
Linea Bocchi - il bagno per tutti | Edoné Design - Agoragroup (edonedesign.it)

I have not found what I'm looking for there yet, but I think I'm on the right track. If Bocchi doesn't offer what I want, then I'll also look for German companies.

Thank you for your help, and I'll report back on whether I've had success.

cheers,
Chris
 
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Chris_G

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Here are a couple of simple ones-

That 370 model with the lever sticking straight up is really great (my wife may accuse it of looking too phallic... but hey, it is a toilet, after all)

Question for you, HJ (or anybody who would know)-

Can you tell if these would work with standard US plumbing?

thanks for any help
 
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Terry

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For that bowl to flush, it needs 1.6 gallons.

Most domestic flush valves for use in the US, would have a 1" supply from the wall to the valve and an 1-1/2" tailpiece going into the bowl.

What you have is a 3/4" something, and I can't tell how much water that would put out.
It looks more like something a Urinal might have used maybe 50 years ago.

sloan-flushometer-terrylove-1.jpg
 
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Chris_G

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Now that's what I'm talking about...

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Chris_G said:
I've seen flushometers in some upscale hotel/restaurant bathrooms that have even cleaner lines/less detail than these two models. Though I'm detail oriented enough that I noticed, and took note of them, I wasn't in the market for one at the time, so I didn't get the brand. Now that I'm in the market, I'm not finding these, shall I call them "designer flushometers".





Leave it to German engineering.

Schell GmbH + Co. KG: Schellomat Edition WC flush valve

Professional sanitary-ware installers, specifiers and building managers have long been aware of the advantages of wall-mounted WC flush valves... However, architects and customers were put off by these units™ outdated visual design and excessive noise. Schell Armaturentechnologie in Olpe, Germany, took this to heart and brought this tried and tested product back into the limelight at the ISH in the form of the newly designed Schellomat Edition WC flush valve...

The international juries of both the "reddot design award 2004" and "Design Plus 2005" were of the opinion that the clean-line elegance which the sieger design company lent to the Schellomat Edition was worth an award...

These new Schell flush valves have been designed with the important theme of saving water in mind with a substantial flush capacity and a wide adjusting range from 4.5 to 12 liters. The Schellomat Edition Eco version also has an economy button allowing the flush volume to be halved.
 
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Bob NH

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The issue is not how many gallons per flush the valve provides. The issue is the RATE at which it delivers the required 1.6 gallons. That is why toilet flush tanks have 2 to 3 inch flush valves and often dump only the first half of the tank.

My 1.6 gallon toilet dumps 1.6 gallons in about 2 seconds as near as I can tell without instrumentation. That is 48 Gallons Per Minute! Besides the valve, you need a big pipe.

Low flow toilet desingers work hard to match the tank discharge to the toilet. My guess is that a non-standard flusjh valve would probably not work.
 

SteveW

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Chris_G said:
That 370 model with the lever sticking straight up is really great (my wife may accuse it of looking too phallic... but hey, it is a toilet, after all)


Ummm...not sure how to say this, but if your wife thinks the Model 370 looks phallic, you may want to see a urologist...
 

Chris_G

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Bob NH said:
My guess is that a non-standard flusjh valve would probably not work.

Well it must be standard to some toilet. They obviously designed it to work with something.


.
 

Cass

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Chris_G, what is it about toilets you don't like, just wondering.

Have you looked at The Caroma Caravel 270?
 

Chris_G

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I have nothing against toilets, I have a whole thread here dedicated to finding the right one. You seem to be saying, why don't I like "tank" toilets? Don't like them. I have my reasons. I'm not interested in a debate over tank toilets vs flushometer toilets. You can debate that on some other thread... my bet is, that thread probably already exists.

I'm looking for a flushometer that has had as much thought put into its design as hardware manufacturers are willing to put into faucets, shower heads, and other bathroom hardware. The flushometer, has been neglected.

Hansgrohe 38030 Axor Faucet

WS Bath Collection Sink Trap

Kohler stacked thermostatic valve trim

Why not put that much aesthetic
thought into a flushometer design?

Schell GmbH + Co. KG of Germany has taken the time to address the issue. Why do you want to Poo-poo it? (couldn't resist the pun)


.
 
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hj

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Because in this country, flushometer valves are almost universally used in commercial and some rental units where perfomrance, and not aesthetics, is the main consideration. When aesthetics becomes an issue they usually opt for a conventional tank type. You also have to consider who is going to repair these things, and the common "plant" service person is going to know how to fix a Sloan, but will have no clue, or parts, for an aesthetically pleasing one.
 
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Cass

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Sorry for asking....I didn't want to debate anything, I was just curious why you don't like tanks.
 

Chris_G

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hj said:
Because in this country, flushometer valves are almost universally used in commercial and some rental units where perfomrance, and not aesthetics, is the main consideration. When aesthetics becomes an issue they usually opt for a conventional tank type. You also have to consider who is going to repair these things, and the common "plant" service person is going to know how to fix a Sloan, but will have no clue, or parts, for an aesthetically pleasing one.

OK, that is a very reasonable explanation.

I'll try to make sense of this.

People that don't live in New York, Tokyo, or one of a handful of other major metropolises just don't grasp how rare and valued space is- My only bathroom is 6' x 6.5'. There is a reason why most Manhattan apartments (NOT rentals, but owner occupied Coop, and Condo apartments) have flushometers. Take 32" off one side of my bath for the bathtub, and I have 6' x 46" left to have a toilet across from a sink, with only a few square feet of floor space in between. With a top mounted flushometer I can place the toilet 3 inches closer to the wall (maybe more), and re-gain several square feet of usable wall space behind the toilet (where I will hang two towel bars, one over the other).

There are something like 2.5MM people in Manhattan (not all of New York, I'm only talking about Manhattan Island, where the density is highest). Add in the high density areas of central London, Berlin, Paris, Hong Kong, Tokyo, etc. and there is a large market for cosmetically pleasing flushometers. If you read that article about the design awards that Schell GmbH + Co. KG won for their flushometer, with that market in mind, you see who they are targeting.



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Jadnashua

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Well, I just looked at a couple popular Toto models, a round front Drake is about 1/4" deeper than one of their flushometer toilets (26-3/8" verses 26-1/8"), and an elongated toilet was about 1.75" deeper. Varies by model, a little more/a little less.

Older, 5-gallon flush toilets needed a much larger tank. The mandated 1.6 gallon tanks are typically much smaller. So, your theory about saving huge space is not convincing me...
 

Cass

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Jadnashua, he is gaining the space where the tank would be, not so much the floor space.
 

Chris_G

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I came here genuinely thinking there were experts on plumbing hardware and all things toilets that would be happy to speak up and point me in the direction of cool/sleek plumbing hardware that a novice like me wouldn't know where to find. Sorry if I offended anyone.
 

Jadnashua

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Based on your concerns, the Toto Neorest is shorter front to back than most flushometer tanks. Most one-piece new toilets are no where near as long front to back,and the tank doesn't go very high at all, some are barely 6" above the seat height. In fact the Neorest doesn't have a tank. There are alternatives to a flushometer.

If the flushometer valve will flow the proper volume of water at the needed rate, then it will work. As noted, those typically used in the USA use big supplies and a huge shot of water for a short time. It is not known if the valves designed for a European toilet would work with one of ours. So, even if you put a nice valve on a US toilet, and it used the right amount of water, it may not flush properly. You might have to buy a toilet from Europe, and who knows if it will fit on one of our rough-ins. No guarantee it will work well. As you will find out if you check, some of the "new" low-flow toilets available here by old names don't work for a d***. Some work quite well, and will be quieter than a flushometer. Less of an impact on your shower, too, depending on how well-designed your plumbing is, too. So, take the responses in that light, and do what you wish. Good luck.

You haven't offended anyone, but I think it is just that people aren't sympathetic to your perceived problem and have been trying to point out some useful info, if you care to listen.
 

hj

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No offense, you can do anything you wish to, but your math is suspect. The toilet by code has to have a space 30" wide with the toilet in the center of it, so that space can be occupied by the tank, or nothing, but it still has to be there, using up your money. Few toilet tanks hang 3" behind the toilet so you are also not gaining that much space, either. You would be lucky to find one with 1 1/2" between the bowl and the wall with a true 12" dimenstion. The other thing to consider is that the majority of flush valve toilets are designed for a 10" rough dimension, (the oldr Mansfield's would fit a 7" rough dimension), so if yours is 12" you have already lost 2" more. Nex, because of piping issues, you probably cannot move the toilet so it sets completely against the wall. A more practical consideration is that many NYC bathrooms were equipped with flushometer valves, so using another one is simpler. If you do not have piping for a flushometer, converting to one is not simply a case of increasing the pipe connection to it.
 
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