Flushometer Brands

Discussion in 'Toilet Forum discussions' started by Chris_G, Mar 22, 2006.

  1. Chris_G

    Chris_G New Member

    Messages:
    23
    OK, this is my first post here. I want to state right up front that I'm not a plumber or a contractor...

    I prefer manual flushometers over tank toilets. I have two issues I need to resolve before making a final purchase decision:

    1.) How to determine which flushometer hardware is compatible with which toilet bowl.

    2.) Finding a flushometer that I'm satisfied with, from a design perspective.

    Regarding the second issue- So far, I'm most inclined to either the Sloan Crown II, or the Sloan GEM... however, I've seen flushometers in some upscale hotel/restaurant bathrooms that have even cleaner lines/less detail than these two models. Though I'm detail oriented enough that I noticed, and took note of them, I wasn't in the market for one at the time, so I didn't get the brand. Now that I'm in the market, I'm not finding these, shall I call them "designer flushometers".

    My suspicion is that they are European manufactured, and probably have some other name rather than "flushometer". Does anyone know what "flushometer" is in Italian?

    Thank you for any assistance.
    Last edited: Mar 28, 2006
  2. hj

    hj Moderator & Master Plumber Staff Member

    Messages:
    26,304
    Location:
    Cave Creek, Arizona
    flush

    You may have been looking at a Toto valve. For ease and service, longevity, and parts availability, you cannot beat the Sloan/Zurn valves. Zurn being a Sloan knockoff.
  3. Chris_G

    Chris_G New Member

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    23
    thank you

    I've looked at Toto on their website at:
    http://www.totousa.com

    They do have a selection of flushometers under their commercial products, but they're not really what I'm looking for.

    Once I stopped searching under "flushometer" and changed my search string to "flush valve", I've found some other manufacturers. Right now I'm limiting my advanced google search to seach by a specific domain sufix (".it") to seach only in Italy. That yielded the Italian plumbing manufacturer named Bocchi:
    http://www.bocchi.it

    I have not found what I'm looking for there yet, but I think I'm on the right track. If Bocchi doesn't offer what I want, then I'll also look for German companies.

    Thank you for your help, and I'll report back on whether I've had success.

    cheers,
    Chris
  4. Chris_G

    Chris_G New Member

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    23
    Here are a couple of simple ones-

    TEMPO® 300 Push button flush valve

    TEMPO® 370 Lever operated flush valve

    That 370 model with the lever sticking straight up is really great (my wife may accuse it of looking too phallic... but hey, it is a toilet, after all)

    Question fcor you, HJ (or anybody who would know)-

    Can you tell if these would work with standard US plumbing?

    thanks for any help
    Last edited: Mar 22, 2006
  5. Chris_G

    Chris_G New Member

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    23
    I would like to know if I understand the usage of this hardware correctly.

    If a 1.6 GPF Toto toilet model CT705L...

    [​IMG]

    were used with a Bocchi Tempo 370 Lever operated surface flush valve...

    [​IMG]

    Would it work this way?

    [​IMG]

    Here are the specs (only available for the push button version):

    [​IMG]





    Thanks for any feedback.





    .
    Last edited: Mar 28, 2006
  6. Terry

    Terry Administrator Staff Member

    Messages:
    14,805
    Location:
    Bothell, Washington
    For that bowl to flush, it needs 1.6 gallons.

    Most domestic flush valves for use in the US, would have a 1" supply from the wall to the valve and an 1-1/2" tailpiece going into the bowl.

    What you have is a 3/4" something, and I can't tell how much water that would put out.
    It looks more like something a Urinal might have used maybe 50 years ago.
  7. Chris_G

    Chris_G New Member

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    23
    Now that's what I'm talking about...

    .








    Leave it to German engineering.

    Schell GmbH + Co. KG: Schellomat Edition WC flush valve

    [​IMG]

    Professional sanitary-ware installers, specifiers and building managers have long been aware of the advantages of wall-mounted WC flush valves... However, architects and customers were put off by these units’ outdated visual design and excessive noise. Schell Armaturentechnologie in Olpe, Germany, took this to heart and brought this tried and tested product back into the limelight at the ISH in the form of the newly designed Schellomat Edition WC flush valve...

    The international juries of both the "reddot design award 2004" and "Design Plus 2005" were of the opinion that the clean-line elegance which the sieger design company lent to the Schellomat Edition was worth an award...

    These new Schell flush valves have been designed with the important theme of saving water in mind – with a substantial flush capacity and a wide adjusting range from 4.5 to 12 litres. The Schellomat Edition Eco version also has an economy button allowing the flush volume to be halved.

    READ THE FULL ARTICLE HERE:
    Schell´s new wall-mounted WC flush valves have already won two design prizes





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    Last edited: Mar 28, 2006
  8. hj

    hj Moderator & Master Plumber Staff Member

    Messages:
    26,304
    Location:
    Cave Creek, Arizona
    valves

    They might work on U.S. toilets once you got past the problem of adapting to the metric connecions.
  9. Bob NH

    Bob NH In the Trades

    Messages:
    3,317
    Location:
    New Hampshire
    The issue is not how many gallons per flush the valve provides. The issue is the RATE at which it delivers the required 1.6 gallons. That is why toilet flush tanks have 2 to 3 inch flush valves and often dump only the first half of the tank.

    My 1.6 gallon toilet dumps 1.6 gallons in about 2 seconds as near as I can tell without instrumentation. That is 48 Gallons Per Minute! Besides the valve, you need a big pipe.

    Low flow toilet desingers work hard to match the tank discharge to the toilet. My guess is that a non-standard flusjh valve would probably not work.
  10. SteveW

    SteveW DIY Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,052
    Location:
    Omaha, NE

    Ummm...not sure how to say this, but if your wife thinks the Model 370 looks phallic, you may want to see a urologist...
  11. Chris_G

    Chris_G New Member

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    23
    .


    Well it must be standard to some toilet. They obviously designed it to work with something.


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  12. Cass

    Cass Plumber

    Messages:
    5,980
    Location:
    Ohio
    Chris_G, what is it about toilets you don't like, just wondering.

    Have you looked at The Caroma Caravel 270?
  13. Chris_G

    Chris_G New Member

    Messages:
    23
    .



    I have nothing against toilets, I have a whole thread here dedicated to finding the right one. You seem to be saying, why don't I like "tank" toilets? Don't like them. I have my reasons. I'm not interested in a debate over tank toilets vs flushometer toilets. You can debate that on some other thread... my bet is, that thread probably already exists.

    I'm looking for a flushometer that has had as much thought put into its design as hardware manufacturers are willing to put into faucets, shower heads, and other bathroom hardware. The flushometer, has been neglected.

    Hansgrohe 38030 Axor Faucet
    [​IMG]

    WS Bath Collection Sink Trap
    [​IMG]

    Kohler stacked thermostatic valve trim
    [​IMG]

    Why not put that much aesthetic throught into a flushometer design?

    Schell GmbH + Co. KG of Germany has taken the time to address the issue. Why do you want to Poo-poo it? (couldn't resist the pun)


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    Last edited: Mar 28, 2006
  14. hj

    hj Moderator & Master Plumber Staff Member

    Messages:
    26,304
    Location:
    Cave Creek, Arizona
    flush

    Because in this country, flushometer valves are almost universally used in commercial and some rental units where perfomrance, and not aesthetics, is the main consideration. When aesthetics becomes an issue they usually opt for a conventional tank type. You also have to consider who is going to repair these things, and the common "plant" service person is going to know how to fix a Sloan, but will have no clue, or parts, for an aesthetically pleasing one.
    Last edited: Mar 25, 2006
  15. Cass

    Cass Plumber

    Messages:
    5,980
    Location:
    Ohio
    Sorry for asking....I didn't want to debate anything, I was just curious why you don't like tanks.
  16. Chris_G

    Chris_G New Member

    Messages:
    23
    OK, that is a very reasonable explanation.

    I'll try to make sense of this.

    People that don't live in New York, Tokyo, or one of a handful of other major metropolises just don't grasp how rare and valued space is- My only bathroom is 6' x 6.5'. There is a reason why most Manhattan apartments (NOT rentals, but owner occupied Coop, and Condo apartments) have flushometers. Take 32" off one side of my bath for the bathtub, and I have 6' x 46" left to have a toilet across from a sink, with only a few square feet of floor space in between. With a top mounted flushometer I can place the toilet 3 inches closer to the wall (maybe more), and re-gain several square feet of usable wall space behind the toilet (where I will hang two towel bars, one over the other).

    There are something like 2.5MM people in Manhattan (not all of New York, I'm only talking about Manhattan Island, where the density is highest). Add in the high density areas of central London, Berlin, Paris, Hong Kong, Tokyo, etc. and there is a large market for cosmetically pleasing flushometers. If you read that article about the design awards that Schell GmbH + Co. KG won for their flushometer, with that market in mind, you see who they are targeting.



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    Last edited: Mar 28, 2006
  17. jadnashua

    jadnashua Retired Defense Industry Engineer xxx

    Messages:
    21,824
    Location:
    New England
    Well, I just looked at a couple popular Toto models, a round front Drake is about 1/4" deeper than one of their flushometer toilets (26-3/8" verses 26-1/8"), and an elongated toilet was about 1.75" deeper. Varies by model, a little more/a little less.

    Older, 5-gallon flush toilets needed a much larger tank. The mandated 1.6 gallon tanks are typically much smaller. So, your theory about saving huge space is not convincing me...
  18. Chris_G

    Chris_G New Member

    Messages:
    23
    edit......
    Last edited: Mar 25, 2006
  19. Cass

    Cass Plumber

    Messages:
    5,980
    Location:
    Ohio
    Jadnashua, he is gaining the space where the tank would be, not so much the floor space.
  20. Chris_G

    Chris_G New Member

    Messages:
    23
    I came here genuinely thinking there were experts on plumbing hardware and all things toilets that would be happy to speak up and point me in the direction of cool/sleek plumbing hardware that a novice like me wouldn't know where to find. Sorry if I offended anyone.
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