FLUIDMASTER 7530 WAXLESS SEAL AND NEW TOTO TOILETS

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RonJ

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I wonder if anyone out there can shed some light on this issue?
I have a Toto Drake II elongated toilet that I want to install, and the Fluidmaster 7530 Waxless seal caught my eye. One thing that appealed to me on the package is the notation that plunging won't cause the seal to leak, as in a wax seal. (that actually happened to me with a wax seal, so I'm thinking I might try something else with this new toilet).

Here's the issue: one of the reviews online says the Fluidmaster 7530 doesn't work with "newer" Toto toilets (whatever that means) because the seal is too small for the horn of the toilets, causing the seal to "bunch up" and that it won't fit or work properly.

Of course Fluidmaster claims it works with every toilet that is floor mounted. Before I pull up the nasty old toilet and clean off all the horrible old wax from the flange, am I barking up the wrong treee with this particular seal for the Toto Drake II? I figure, since it is a new toilet, maybe it is also one of the newer Toto toilets the reviewer was complaining about.

Of course, maybe that assumption is false. I appeal to the crowd: can I use this seal with this toilet, or am I simply deluded?

Thanks,
Ron

better-than-wax-1.jpg
 
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Brian Hartman

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I've been looking at those wax-free options for awhile now. I just picked up a Fernco wax-free seal and will be trying it out on a new toilet install tomorrow. I've got three toilets to replace in the house, so might go to the Fluidmaster as well. Here's hoping for no leaks!
 

Reach4

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I just picked up a Fernco wax-free seal and will be trying it out on a new toilet install tomorrow.
I remember people saying that the toilet had to be new, or at least have the wax completely removed from where the adhesive attaches to the toilet, to have that work well.
 

RonJ

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http://www.fluidmaster.com/our-prod...r-than-wax-wax-free-toilet-seal-disabled.html

That will work with any of the TOTO bowls. The Drake II is a very standard bowl when it comes to installation.


We install our toilets with wax.

THANKS! of course now I'm worried that I'm doing something different than the Terry Love way. BTW, I just wanted to express my gratitude for all the great service you and your son provide to the community of amateurs and professionals. I wish I lived in Washington State instead of the east coast. I would hire you guys to do all my plumbing in a New York second, and then I would know it's done right!
 

RonJ

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I remember people saying that the toilet had to be new, or at least have the wax completely removed from where the adhesive attaches to the toilet, to have that work well.
I've been looking at those wax-free options for awhile now. I just picked up a Fernco wax-free seal and will be trying it out on a new toilet install tomorrow. I've got three toilets to replace in the house, so might go to the Fluidmaster as well. Here's hoping for no leaks!

I'm snowed in for a few days here in Northern Virginia, so I think I'll be installing the Drake II tomorrow using the 7530. If I have a problem with it, I'll post on the forum.
 

Brian Hartman

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Well, I can't speak for the Totos specifically. However, yesterday I tried to install a new DXV (American Standard) Lyndon using the Fluidmaster Waxless seal and I couldn't get it to work properly. The first problem is that the opening of the Fluidmaster is too small to fit fully around the horn at the bottom of the toilet. Problem number two is with the thickness of the product... My flange sits even with the floor and as per the directions included with the Fluidmaster, I am supposed to use the included foam spacer. With the spacer, my toilet sat about 3/4" off of the floor and even with all my weight on the toilet I could not compress it anywhere close to something acceptable. I then tried the product without the spacer, but just the blue rubber gasket is too thin to make a seal against the bottom of the toilet when the toilet is sitting flush on the floor. I ended up going back to wax and got a great seal!
 
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I ended up going back to wax and got a great seal!
Wax is ideal if the install is a text-book scenario, and the horn will mash the wax just right onto the flange.

There are times where the waxless ones can seal better. It's funny when traditionalists will knock these new rings, oblivious they are made with the same stuffs that waste main couplers are made of.
 

RonJ

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Well, I can't speak for the Totos specifically. However, yesterday I tried to install a new DXV (American Standard) Lyndon using the Fluidmaster Waxless seal and I couldn't get it to work properly. The first problem is that the opening of the Fluidmaster is too small to fit fully around the horn at the bottom of the toilet. Problem number two is with the thickness of the product... My flange sits even with the floor and as per the directions included with the Fluidmaster, I am supposed to use the included foam spacer. With the spacer, my toilet sat about 3/4" off of the floor and even with all my weight on the toilet I could not compress it anywhere close to something acceptable. I then tried the product without the spacer, but just the blue rubber gasket is too thin to make a seal against the bottom of the toilet when the toilet is sitting flush on the floor. I ended up going back to wax and got a great seal!

I just tried to install the Drake II with the fluidmaster seal: TOTAL DISASTER. All of the problems mentioned above applied. The horn is too big on the toilet and won't fit the seal AND the seal is too thick and the toilet ends up about half an inch too high. You can't even get the bolts through the bowl to secure it. Worst installation experience ever. Going back to wax.
 
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RonJ

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I just tried to install the Drake II with the fluidmaster seal: TOTAL DISASTER. All of the problems mentioned above applied. The horn is too big on the toilet and won't fit the seal AND the seal is too thick and the toilet ends up about half an inch too high. You can't even get the bolts through the bowl to secure it. Worst installation experience ever. Going back to wax.
Tried a third time and got it to work by disregarding the instructions and fitting the seal to the horn on the bottom of the bowl first. It's too small but it is rubber and it will stretch over the horn with some fighting. Once the top of it is flush with the bowl it will work although it is difficult to align with the flange bolts. The problem with it being too thick goes away. Seems to work ok now but I still won't buy it next time. Any advantage it might have is negated by the difficulty in getting it to work on the Drake II.
 

Koa

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I have an Ultramax and a plastic flange that is 1/2" thick above finished floor. I could not get the Fluidmaster to work even when installing on toilet first. It was just too thick. I used the Korky with just the thin foam spacer and it worked fine. I did try an additional thin spacer but the toilet would rock. Two thin spacers with the Korky was still thinner than the Fluidmaster so I surprised people get that to work. I like the design of Fluidmaster better since the Korky is thinner material and doesn't seem to compress evenly since there is excess material with just the thin spacer and some of the material ends up inside the flange.

In case anyone is interested here are a couple of photos of a flange compressing the Korky seal. You can see how little room there is between the flange and toilet and how the seal doesn't uniformly compress. The flange in the photos was used just to see how the gasket worked.

koa-06.jpg



koa-05.jpg
 
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Reach4

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That is a different flange in the second picture, right?
 

Koa

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No, same flange, I just took off the ribbed seal on the flange to get a clearer photo of the Korky seal inside.
 

pikachu621

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Well, I can't speak for the Totos specifically. However, yesterday I tried to install a new DXV (American Standard) Lyndon using the Fluidmaster Waxless seal and I couldn't get it to work properly. The first problem is that the opening of the Fluidmaster is too small to fit fully around the horn at the bottom of the toilet. Problem number two is with the thickness of the product... My flange sits even with the floor and as per the directions included with the Fluidmaster, I am supposed to use the included foam spacer. With the spacer, my toilet sat about 3/4" off of the floor and even with all my weight on the toilet I could not compress it anywhere close to something acceptable. I then tried the product without the spacer, but just the blue rubber gasket is too thin to make a seal against the bottom of the toilet when the toilet is sitting flush on the floor. I ended up going back to wax and got a great seal!
 

JMC

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I installed two on my new Drakes, without problems. The key is a light lube along the seal. The lube will allow the horn to start into the seal, without bunching. A dry fit will not work, due to the tight fit.
 
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