Flood Light Help

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appdude

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We are currently planning to put in 3 12 Volt 10 Watt LED floodlights when we do our deck in the spring. My question is, what type of transformer should be used? The lights I am looking at are AC, and AC/DC. Also, would I be better off using the 120 Volt version instead? If so, where should I take the wire from?
 

hj

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You would need a transformer with adequate capacity for the lights you will use. How will they be controlled? Automatically or manually? IF you use 120 volts, you obviously take the wire from a power source, wherever THAT is.
 

Jadnashua

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There's always a loss when you convert, whether that is through a transformer or a power supply. LED's internally run on dcv, and how they get that from an acv supply depends on how much of the power supply is external to the enclosure or internal. The advantage of higher voltage is that you can use smaller wires, at 10W with 120vac, that's less than a tenth of an amp...with say a 12v supply, through a transformer, that tenth of an amp becomes closer to one amp. At the scale of things you're dealing with, neither is a big deal. DC power losses are greater than AC power losses for the same wire length, so some of it depends on how long the supply wiring is to it along with the supply voltage.
 

WorthFlorida

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LED lighting is definitely going through some growing pains and this is a perfect example. Should direct AC wired unit with built in drivers be used or go with a DC unit with an external driver?
  • For one you need to look at the lumen rating between the two. Will it give you the light output as you expect it to be? A 120 volt 65 watt incandescent is around 800 lumens and a 120 volt LED equivalent draws about 10-13 watts.
  • Next is where will they be installed. If they'll be on the house then 120 volt would be easier. Use existing wiring or it can be easily added.
  • If it is out away from the deck to light up the yard, etc, low voltage would be easier since the wiring is easier. Low voltage does not need the same protection as 120 volt system.
  • Finally, you cannot use a transformer for LED lighting. It must be a DC output power supply. In the LED world they call them drivers. A transformer gives you lower voltage but it will still be alternating current. You'll need to find a driver that can handle 30 watts or more but then is where will you mount it. It must be wired to AC power and the 120 volt power source must be switched to turn them on or off. You cannot turn the lights off on the 12 volt side.
For a typical flood light I use the standard 120v LED lamps that screw into a standard flood light fixture. No fuss. There are some nice LED flood light fixtures as a whole unit where the LED's are integrated into the fixture. Both HD and Lowes have them.
 

WorthFlorida

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I installed some first class LED spots from this source. They are very helpful on the phone.

These are commercial grade lights and transformers.
http://www.landscapelightingworld.com/Default.asp

Very impressive LED line and I was incorrect on one of my statements. These low voltage units do take 12 volts AC, they have a built in driver. It keeps it compatible with the old standard incandescent low voltage systems.
 

JerryR

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Very impressive LED line and I was incorrect on one of my statements. These low voltage units do take 12 volts AC, they have a built in driver. It keeps it compatible with the old standard incandescent low voltage systems.

These are FIRST CLASS commercial grade lighting solutions.

Our home had 2 strings/transformers of old 20 watt 12 volt Malibu Halogen landscape lights in the front. I reused the Malibu transformers and replaced several of the 20w/12v Malibu spots with 9w/12v LED G2 Spots from http://www.landscapelightingworld.com/led-landscape-lighting-spotlight-g2-infiniti-p/val-1033-bz.htm The LEDs gave me capacity to double the number of spots using the same transformers. I therefor also added 9w/12v LEDs to light up the front 6 large Palm trees, 2 large Oak trees and a good size Magnolia Tree at night off the same Malibu transformer.

In my backyard I installed one of their 300w 12v-16v first class transformers to supply several 18W/12v G2 spots to light up palms in the backyard and additional 12v floods for the backyard. The transformers have multiple taps to compensate for voltage loss for long wire runs so light output is balanced. You can have some strings taping the 12v, another string taping 14, 15 and/or 15 volt output so that you get 12 volts at the light on long runs.
I installed Z-wave receptacles at each of the 3 outdoor transformer boxes. The Z-Wave deices are controlled by self installed Honeywell alarm system. I have scenes set so outdoor Lights are automatically turned on at sunset and remain on for 4 hours. Another scene set so when I open the front door anytime between sunset-sunrise the front lights come on. I also can manually command them via my iPhone or iPads remotely or locally .

I'm a tech junky. My wife says everything in the house is "rigged." Toto washlet toilet seat has an RF remote control, Garage Door has MyQ WIFI remote, multiple IP cameras, Alarm with cellular and interactive access, dozens of Z-Wave receptacles for indoor and outdoor lights, Motion lights in hallways, garage and bathrooms, Electric car (Nissan Leaf) with charging station in the garage, pool controls via wifi for pump and pool heater, 21 SEER inverter heat pump A/C with Honeywell Redlink controlling 3 zones, remote iPhone app for the 3 thermostats ETC, ETC ETC. .
 

WorthFlorida

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I'm a tech junky. My wife says everything in the house is "rigged." Toto washlet toilet seat has an RF remote control


You're not finished. When the Toto is flushed the outdoor lights need to dim.
 

appdude

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Thanks for all of your guys input! I think I'm going to go with a 12 volt system because I feel more comfortable using it outside. My final question is, would it be fine if i just use landscaping wire?
 

Jadnashua

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The type of wire will depend on how many amps you plan of sourcing. For example, say a 12W bulb at 12VDC (or ACV) will draw one amp, but only 0.1A at 120vac - the wire must be large enough to not have too much resistance at the intended load which will also keep it from overheating.
 

JerryR

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Thanks for all of your guys input! I think I'm going to go with a 12 volt system because I feel more comfortable using it outside. My final question is, would it be fine if i just use landscaping wire?

Yes. Use a good quality landscape wire, which will resist being affected by UV and can be direct buried.
http://www.landscapelightingworld.com/Landscape-Cable-Connectors-Accessories-s/32.htm Is typical.

I used a run of 12/2 to supply 3ea 18w/12v LEDs 100 feet from the transformer. Voltage drop at the lights (I seem to remember) was about 1volt, powering 54 watts total 100 feet from transformer.

Weatherproof splices are important. there are several gell filled wire nuts that are designed for outdoor connections.
 
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WorthFlorida

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From http://www.landscapelightingworld.com/VOLT-Pro-Junction-Hub-p/vwc-6504-bk.htm

The Hub Method of wiring describes when several lighting fixtures are connected to a single junction. A wire then connects the junction to the transformer to supply the power. A lighting system may use several hubs - all connected to a single transformer.

In the days when all lighting used incandescent or halogen bulbs, hubs were needed to ensure that every fixture received exactly the same voltage. Now, with LED systems, the acceptable voltage range is much wider (8V to 15V compared to the previous 10V to 12V). This means that hubs are no longer needed to equalize the voltage. But there are many other reasons why hubs are smart for all systems - even LEDs.

 
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