Flies from Bottom of Toilet...

Discussion in 'Shower & bathtub Forum & Blog' started by k9mlxj, Jan 7, 2011.

  1. k9mlxj

    k9mlxj New Member

    Messages:
    100
    Location:
    Bay Area CA
    Hi there,

    I am seeing a strange problem after I installed Fluidmaster Wax Free Toilet Bowl Gasket instead of the regular toilet bowel wax ring for both of my toilets.

    I see flies coming out from the bottom of both toilets.

    There is a current leak from the bottom of the tub drain, so perhaps there's a water source to feed the flies, but I wonder how they could come in thru' the bottom of the toilets.

    Is it possible the Fluidmaster Wax Free Toilet Bowl Gasket doesn't seal up well enough along the drain so flies can come in?

    I wonder if anyone has seen problem like this w/ this Fluidmaster wax-free gasket, or it's just perhaps some other gap I'm missing to see.

    Thanks.

    (Oops--meant to post in the toilet forum--feel free to move the post--thx)
    Last edited: Jan 7, 2011
  2. jadnashua

    jadnashua Retired Defense Industry Engineer xxx

    Messages:
    21,947
    Location:
    New England
    If the inside of the pipe is not clean and smooth when you install a waxless seal, you can have gaps. Plus, if the flange is not tight to the floor, you won't have the advantage of the wax sealing around the screw holes (which may not have screws in them!). The thing works if installed properly and the pipe is clean when you do it, though.
  3. k9mlxj

    k9mlxj New Member

    Messages:
    100
    Location:
    Bay Area CA
    It is a 50 years old cast iron drain pipe and is definitely very uneven in the inner wall. I could barely push (and had to push real hard...) the rubber gasket along the drain wall as I installed it, even though there was some leftover wax from the previously installed wax ring. It is a cast iron flange.

    I wonder if a Fernco Wax Free Toilet Seal would work better. Or it won't help if the cast iron pipe's inner wall is not even in this case.


    Should I revert to use regular wax ring? Or there might be a couple of things I can try first?
    Last edited: Jan 7, 2011
  4. Gary Swart

    Gary Swart In the Trades

    Messages:
    7,338
    Location:
    Yakima WA
    Waxless seals are often very good, and I doubt that changing brands will make any difference. From your description of the drain, I would opt for a regular wax ring. I think this will deal with any irregular spots in the flange. Just use a standard ring with NO PLASTIC FUNNEL.
  5. Redwood

    Redwood Master Plumber

    Messages:
    7,450
    Location:
    Connecticut
    You've got drain flies coming from leaking wax rings it sounds like....

    Replace the wax rings.
  6. k9mlxj

    k9mlxj New Member

    Messages:
    100
    Location:
    Bay Area CA
    So, I'm using the Fluidmaster toilet bowel gasket.

    I wonder where the drain flies are coming from--the dirt in the crawl space under the toilet, or from inside the drain pipe?

    The reason is, there is no tight seal between the top plastic piece of the Fluidmaster bowel gasket and the bottom of the toilet (see pic).

    Fluidmaster-Wax-Free-Toilet-Installation-Bowl-Gasket(1).jpg

    If the drain flies are coming from inside the drain pipe (and not from the dirt),

    then don't I need to seal (glue?) the contact area between the bowel bottom and the Fluidmaster bowel gasket's top (see circle)?
    Last edited: Feb 10, 2011
  7. jadnashua

    jadnashua Retired Defense Industry Engineer xxx

    Messages:
    21,947
    Location:
    New England
    The part you have circled fits tightly around the horn on the porcelain of the toilet...unless you get things offset, it seals. The big o-ring seals between the throat of the seal and the inside of the pipe. Because that seal is a foam rubber and is compressible, I suppose a determined fly could push it's way past it, especially if the pipe was not nice and smooth before installation (which could cause a small gap). the things work IF the pipe is clean and you have things centered properly.
  8. Redwood

    Redwood Master Plumber

    Messages:
    7,450
    Location:
    Connecticut
    The flies are from inside the pipe.

    You have a leaking seal whatever it is that you are using...
  9. k9mlxj

    k9mlxj New Member

    Messages:
    100
    Location:
    Bay Area CA
    There's no water leak out from the toilet to the bathroom floor, nor do I see any leak from down in the crawl space below. I wonder what remains that allows the drain flies to slip thru'.
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2011
  10. Gary Swart

    Gary Swart In the Trades

    Messages:
    7,338
    Location:
    Yakima WA
    When you flush the toilet, the water goes down into the drain and since water does not run up, the only time water would escape would be if the drain line was clogged. So you can easily have air leak and enough gap that the flies can get through and no water leak.
  11. k9mlxj

    k9mlxj New Member

    Messages:
    100
    Location:
    Bay Area CA
    It's been a while back. Recently I happened to take a look at the instructions on the FluidMaster wax-free bowl gasket again.

    Now I realize -- there are these gaps on the gasket and the sleeve where the drain flies can go thru' -- if the O-ring's are not positioned *above* all these gaps (see attached picture).

    Toilet Bowl Gasket-gap.jpg


    These gaps are meant to provide resistance so the O-rings won't slide up/down easily during installation.

    Notice the instruction says to position the O-ring(s) @ the *bottom* of the gasket/sleeve.

    If the O-ring does not slide *above* all the gaps during installation, drain flies can then go thru' any of the gaps *above* the O-ring -- and to the immediate area outside.


    Have I found a possible cause for the drain flies?
    Last edited: Jun 18, 2011
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