Fleck brine draw?

Discussion in 'Water Softener Forum, problems, installation and r' started by moreira85, Nov 5, 2013.

  1. moreira85

    moreira85 New Member

    Messages:
    56
    Location:
    Massachusetts
    Just installed fleck 5600sxt. I have brine draw set to 60 mins and brine fill to 12 mins. During the brine draw the water is sucked out of the brine tank until it's gone but I notice after all the brine water is sucked out I still hear the brine line trying to suck air. Should this be happening? I assumed after the 20mins of sucking brine water it would shut off for the additional 40 min?
  2. Reach4

    Reach4 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,805
    Location:
    IL
    That should be happening. In your book you will see that the cycle is brine draw + slow rinse. Once the check valve (typically under the salt at the bottom) starts sucking air, the valve blocks the path. However water continues to flow, and that is called the slow rinse.

    The amount of brine is determined by the brine fill time along with its companion orifice (whatever its called) that determines the refill rate (often 0.5 GPM).
  3. moreira85

    moreira85 New Member

    Messages:
    56
    Location:
    Massachusetts
    So you are saying after the brine line finishes drawing all the brine water from the brine tank the line should still make the sucking for the remainder of the 60 min?
  4. moreira85

    moreira85 New Member

    Messages:
    56
    Location:
    Massachusetts
    Thanks for the reply. I found this below online. Sounds like it's what you stated. If I understand you correctly after the brine water is sucked out and it starts sucking air a valve will close so it doesn't get into the piping however the brine line will still have a suction for the remainder of the 60 min?

    "The brine draw - slow rinse process takes 60 minutes. After all of the brine solution is drawn from the tank, the check valve in your brine tank shuts off so that air cannot be pulled into your piping. During the remainder of the 60 minutes, the resin column is rinsed, but a suction is still placed on the brine line. This suction does nothing, as the check valve is cutting off the draw process, however, if there is a small leak in the air fitting it may be possible that air is being drawn into you piping during the slow rinse portion of the brine draw process."
  5. mialynette2003

    mialynette2003 Member

    Messages:
    746
    Location:
    Ocala, Florida
    You don't want any air sucked into the unit. That is the purpose of the air check. It stop the unit from drawing air once the water is gone.
  6. moreira85

    moreira85 New Member

    Messages:
    56
    Location:
    Massachusetts
    I understand I don't want air sucked in. How do I know it's not sucking air in and that the valve is working?
  7. Gary Slusser

    Gary Slusser That's all folks!

    The slow rinse flow causes the suction to suck brine water out of the tank. Without the slow rise flow there is no brine draw. Any air suction stops the brine draw...

    Usually except for Autotrol, there is a ball in the air check on the bottom of the brine pickup tube in the salt tank that floats on the brine water and as the water level gets close enough, the ball is sucked into a socket that stops any more water from being sucked out and prevents any air to be sucked into the brine pick up tube. That allows about 2.5" or brine water to remain in the brine tank. There should be no sound of air being sucked and if there is then there is a loose compression fitting that needs to be tightened a bit more. You do not tighten them until you can't turn them anymore; hand tight plus a 1/2 turn and stop.

    Twelve minutes at .5 gpm (or 1.5 lbs) per minute says 6 gallons of refill at 3 lbs/gallon = 18 lbs.
  8. moreira85

    moreira85 New Member

    Messages:
    56
    Location:
    Massachusetts
    Okay now we are getting somewhere. First off I appreciate your time in answering this. i just want to make sure it's working correctly. I checked the air check valve and the ball in it works as it should. Let me rephrase my original question. During the 60 min brine draw the brine water is being sucked out of the the brine well and you can hear the fleck control valve drawing suction. Once the water is all taken out of the brine tank the air check valve has a ball in it and the ball drops to the bottom of the air check and covers the hole so that air can't be sucked in. When this ball drops it does not turn off the fleck control unit from being under suction right? It just blocks the air so that the brine line can't suck?
  9. Gary Slusser

    Gary Slusser That's all folks!

    That is correct, the time the slow rinse/brine draw cycle position runs for is controlled by the number of minutes the control valve timer is set to; in your case 60 minutes. You want the brine out of the salt tank and into the resin bed in the first 10-20 minutes of that cycle position (time). Then the slow rinse flushes the resin with the brine and gets it out of the resin tank to drain. When done, then the Rinse cycle finishes that and compacts the resin bed for down flow service.
  10. moreira85

    moreira85 New Member

    Messages:
    56
    Location:
    Massachusetts
    Thank you. Everything seems to be working then. Can I get some assistance on the salt setting? I have the fleck 40,000 grain w 1.25 cub resin tank. 4 people in the house 2 adults n two young children. I'd avg about 240 gal of water per day. Hardness 1-2 gpg and iron about 3ppm. I have the hardness setting at 17 and capacity at 25 or 25000 with 10% reserve. I think I have the salt brine fill set to high at 12 mins or 18 pounds.
  11. ditttohead

    ditttohead Water systems designer, R&D

    Messages:
    1,942
    Location:
    Ontario California
    What is the BLFC button size? On the front of the system will be a small sticker where the brine line enters the valve. it will be green, red, blue, or black. Black is most common. This will allow us to help you set the salt setting correctly.

    And... you are using a softener for iron removal, not really for softening? Why? An iron removal system would make a lot more sense.
  12. moreira85

    moreira85 New Member

    Messages:
    56
    Location:
    Massachusetts
    I'll check the size when I get home. In the research I did I thought softeners would work for iron under 5ppm. a few neighbors, also on well, had softeners put in and they said it helped with the staining in toilets, and of course they paid big money for theirs to be installed.
  13. moreira85

    moreira85 New Member

    Messages:
    56
    Location:
    Massachusetts
    It's .5 gpm. I was thinking of changing the capacity to 30 and brine fill to 8 mins?
  14. ditttohead

    ditttohead Water systems designer, R&D

    Messages:
    1,942
    Location:
    Ontario California
    Softeners work for iron. M1 tanks work for commuting. neither one is very efficient. Modern iron removal methods have been used for over the past couple of decades. Softeners for pure iron removal is not the most efficient method.
  15. Gary Slusser

    Gary Slusser That's all folks!

    IMO a 1.25 cuft is a bastard type size and you should have bought a 1.5 cuft but... You need to know how hard the water is, don't guess like 1 or 2 gpg. Same goes for your iron. Click the lnk in my signature to learn how to set your K of capacity and salt dose.
  16. DonL

    DonL Jack of all trades Master of one

    Messages:
    4,511
    Location:
    Houston, TX

    Does anyone use electromagnetic water filtering for Iron ?
  17. Reach4

    Reach4 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,805
    Location:
    IL
    Some people use copper bracelets for arthritis and magnetic water softener & conditioners, so probably yes.
  18. Gary Slusser

    Gary Slusser That's all folks!

    ditto sells some types of physical/magnetic "softeners". He has them built in Asia.
  19. DonL

    DonL Jack of all trades Master of one

    Messages:
    4,511
    Location:
    Houston, TX

    Them Carburetor magnets work good too.
  20. ditttohead

    ditttohead Water systems designer, R&D

    Messages:
    1,942
    Location:
    Ontario California
    LOL, you know so little. We sell thousands of products that customers ask for. Our magnetic modules are built in the USA, but thanks for knowing my business better than me. Somebody has obviously not been feeding the troll lately.

    Since I work for one of the larger magentic water conditioning manufacturers, I will tell you the same thing we tell all of our customers. If you are looking for an inexpensive high quality water conditioner, not softener, the carbon tanks with hydromagnetic modules are the lowest cost alternative. Magnetic water conditioning is contreversial but it has been shown in some applications to be somewhat effective. My recommendation is if you do not want a softener, dont like the "Slimy feel" and you do not want to deal with 50 pound bags of salt, these units are fine. They will not soften the water, but they will make the water taste great, and they may help with some of the scaling, but we do not guarantee it. I highly recommend using a teaspoon of Lemi-Shine in the dishwasher for every load, and rain-x on the shower doors, faucets, etc once a month.

    Electromagnetic water filtering for iron is not used that I am aware of.
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