Fleck 2510 SXT Meter problem

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MNO

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I have a Fleck 2510 SXT, 64,000 grain capacity, with 18"x33" salt tank. I have replaced the entire brine fitting assembly (including the .5 GPM flow valve) and the 2310 float assembly. I checked all fill/drain lines for leaks and obstructions. Instructions call for 19 minutes of brine refill based on 64,000 capacity and 20 grains hardness. I timed entire operation and everything works as instructions dictate. However, the 19 minutes of brine refill ends up with far too much water in the brine tank. If left unchecked, it would fill the tank to near the overflow drain, but the 2310 float assembly shuts it off as it should. 9 minutes (as opposed to the suggested setting of 19 minutes) of brine refill puts the water level in the brine tank at about 16 inches. I cleaned everything suggested for brine tank overfill, then replaced everything with new parts after cleaning failed to correct the problem. Where do I go from here?
 

Reach4

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I don't know that softener, but I would suspect the wrong BLFC, BLFC backwards, or BLFC missing.

Once you get things working as they planned, it looks to me that their plan is to use 14.25 pounds of salt per cubic ft of resin. Usually you would like a smaller salt dose, and reduce the capacity setting. This would give more softening per pound of salt.
 

Reach4

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If that is an 18 inch round tank, every inch represents 1.1 gallons. If 18 inches square, every inch represents 1.4 gallons.Your recipe calls for 9.5 gallons. That would be if there were no salt. Salt would increase the rise. I am guessing about twice as much per gallon. How far does your water rise during a fill, and how does the level of the salt factor in?
 

Bannerman

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Did you change any of the programmed settings?

At 19 minutes X 0.5 BLFC = 9.5 gallons entering the Brine tank X 3 = 28.5 lbs of salt.

Softeners are usually setup for an efficient salt setting. At 28.5 lbs of salt for a 2 cuft softener, is not an efficient setting. What instructions are you referring to? Perhaps the 19 minutes is related to the 0.25BLFC which would be a 14.25 lb salt setting which would be more appropriate for a 2 cuft unit.

http://support.afwfilters.com/service-manuals/Fleck2510SXT.pdf
 

ditttohead

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.5 BLFC at 19 minutes would be 9.5 gallons, or approximately 28 pounds of salt. This is much too high for most applications. Your system should be set to 16 pounds of salt for optimal performance and water quality.
Set your refill to 12 minutes. This will give you 6 gallons, or 18 pounds of salt per regeneration. Set you capacity to 48,000 grains.

You should remove the line from the salt tank and test the water flow to be sure it is actually refilling at .5 GPM.
 

MNO

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It is an 18" round tank, 33 " tall. Instructions came with softener. Same instructions are found on Fleck web site. Running it 19 minutes will shut off the float valve at about 18 inches of water in the brine tank. Even 10 minutes gives a water level of 14 or 15 inches, if I remember correctly. The problem is, it did not used to do this. I first cleaned, then replaced all of the brine draw/refill assembly, including the brine tank float assembly. I am missing the problem somehow. I even timed the 19 minutes on the timer and it was 19 minutes.
 

MNO

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The programming is correct, except that I have reduced the brine refill time to 9 minutes in order to give a reduced level in the brine tank.

Salt level is near full at all times.
 

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The programming is correct, except that I have reduced the brine refill time to 9 minutes in order to give a reduced level in the brine tank.
If the flow is really 0.5 GPM, think that gives 6.75 pounds of salt per cuft of resin. Do you have a C number in the programming? Probably. If so, I would reduce C to 43.0 capacity in units of 1000 grains.
 

MNO

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http://www.qualitywaterforless.com/v/vspfiles/downloadables/fleck/2510sxtins.pdf

I am not sure why I would set it to 48,000 grains if it is a 64,000 grain capacity unit. Can you explain further? As for testing the .5 flow valve, I will do that. But it would be weird to have a brand new .5 flow valve fail exactly the same as the replaced valve.

Is there anything else that can affect the brine refill other than what I have mentioned?
 

MNO

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If the flow is really 0.5 GPM, think that gives 6.75 pounds of salt per cuft of resin. Do you have a C number in the programming? Probably. If so, I would reduce C to 43.0 capacity in units of 1000 grains.
Yes, the C number is currently set for 64,000 as per instructions for the 64,000 size.
 

Reach4

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That is not a Fleck site. That setting is not salt-efficient. So why do they list that? To justify calling the softener a 64000 unit. It is a convention. Pretty much everybody does it. But it is not what you probably want to use in real life.
I am not sure why I would set it to 48,000 grains if it is a 64,000 grain capacity unit. Can you explain further?
See the table at the bottom of http://www.qualitywaterassociates.com/softeners/sizingchart.htm and the nearby text.

If you set C to 48, then you would make the BF=12 as Ditttohead suggested. If you keep BF=9, then I would use the C number I suggested. I got that by interpolating between the 6- and 8-lb/cuft numbers.

Is there anything else that can affect the brine refill other than what I have mentioned?
Mentioned? Are you talking about BF and BLFC=0.5?
 

Bannerman

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I am not sure why I would set it to 48,000 grains if it is a 64,000 grain capacity unit. Can you explain further?
While the unit has a total capacity of 64K grains, it is highly inefficient to regenerate that much capacity. Programming a reduced amount of useable capacity, will force the softener to regenerate at that lower setting and therefore will require not only less salt, but the salt use will be more efficient.

For instance, to regenerate all 64K grains would require 36 lbs of salt which equals 1,777 grains per lb.
To regenerate 60K of useable capacity would require 30 lbs of salt or 2K grains per lb.
To regenerate 48K grains would require 16 lbs/salt or 3K grains/lb.
 

Bannerman

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But it would be weird to have a brand new .5 flow valve fail exactly the same as the replaced valve.
Maybe the original brine control had not failed.

Is there anything else that can affect the brine refill other than what I have mentioned?
The BF setting sets the refill time.
Set Time X the BLFC number, dictates the total refill volume. Just because you installed a new brine control, does not necessarily mean the correct or any restrictor button is installed. The button will appear as a small washer with a specific size hole in the center. Instead of taking the control apart, manually advance the controller to Brine Fill to verify the refill rate as Dittohead recommended.

The volume of brine produced, corresponds directly to the softener capacity to be regenerated.

If your car has a 15 gallon fuel tank and a fuel efficiency of 20 mi/gallon, you are not going to be able to drive 300 miles if you only place 5 gallons in an empty tank.
 

MNO

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Thank you for all of the replies. The .5 gpm restrictor valve was replaced along with the entire brine control button. My terminology might not be accurate, but everything down range of the rotary cam was replaced. My setting of 9 minutes on the 64,000 "C" setting gives me 17 to 18 inches of water in the brine tank. Based on the responses, this is very inefficient. I will set "C" to 48,000, but I still don't think I can set it to 12 minutes of brine fill. Based on current operation, this would fill the brine tank well past 18 inches and most likely trip the cut-off on the float valve.

It seem as though I can work around the problem based on your suggestions, but I still wonder what caused the condition to begin with. Is it possible that something in the bottom of the brine tank (solid salt block, etc) could cause such a rise in the water level? I keep the tank full at all times, so I haven't seen anything below the top 1/4 of the tank for years.

By the way, this is a heck of a learning experience for me. You guys are great!
 

Bannerman

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Best to remove some loose salt so that you can take a broom stick to attempt to push through the lower layers of salt. Since you have kept the tank so full for so many years, you could have a salt bridge or block of hardened salt which is not dissolving. If it's not dissolving, then it's just taking-up space and displacing the water so that the water level is higher than it should be.

Sometimes warm/hot water will soften hardened salt where cold water won't.

It's advisable on an ongoing basis, to allow the salt level to drop near empty before adding fresh salt. The brine tank should also be cleaned-out every few years as dirt and impurities contained in the salt will accumulate in the brine tank.
 
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MNO

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Best to remove some loose salt so that you can take a broom stick to attempt to push through the lower layers of salt. Since you have kept the tank so full for so many years, you could have a salt bridge or block of hardened salt which is not dissolving. If it's not dissolving, then it's just taking-up space and displacing the water so that the water level is higher than it should be.

Sometimes warm/hot water will soften hardened salt where cold water won't.

It's advisable on an ongoing basis, to allow the salt level to drop near empty before adding fresh salt. The brine tank should also be cleaned-out every few years as dirt and impurities contained in the salt will accumulate in the brine tank.


Good advice. I will re-set the controls as suggested above and let the salt level go down until I can clean and check the bottom of the tank. I was able to push a wooden dowel down, but it was difficult. I might have a salt block.
 

Reach4

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During the brine draw cycle the brine gets sucked out to a level determined by the air check valve. You could at a point before the brine fill stage dump 6 gallons of water in so you would know what 12 minutes of flow should look like. Or alternatively you could put in 4 or 4.5 gallons of water and see what that looks like.

Or just do the measurement that you plan to do.
 

MNO

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During the brine draw cycle the brine gets sucked out to a level determined by the air check valve. You could at a point before the brine fill stage dump 6 gallons of water in so you would know what 12 minutes of flow should look like. Or alternatively you could put in 4 or 4.5 gallons of water and see what that looks like.

Or just do the measurement that you plan to do.

Good idea. I have a couple of 5 gallon buckets. Very good idea. Thanks!
 
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