Fixing Bad Stack Repair

Discussion in 'Plumbing Forum, Professional & DIY Advice' started by Nate R, Jan 13, 2009.

  1. Nate R

    Nate R New Member

    Messages:
    472
    Location:
    Milwaukee, WI
    [​IMG]

    When I redo the kitchen, (Hopefully this year) I will be fixing this mess that was left by the previous owner.

    There is the 4X4X2 tee visible in the pic which handles the kitchen sink drain. There is another below it that connects a branch that drains a bathtub, sink, and clothes washer. Below that is another 2 feet of PVC, then back to cast. The PVC is just sitting on the cast and held in place by another fernco. There is no hub below this pic before the pipe goes underground. It is not accessible enough to dig down to find the next hub.

    Now, The cast line above the picture needs to stay. (Toilet is the only thing that drains from above this pic) How would I go about correcting this?

    My thought is:
    1. Clamp/support the cast line so it doesn't move and supports the line above. (How do I do THAT!?)
    2. Cut the cast about 2-3 feet higher than the Fernco
    3. Where the cast was removed, add two 1/8 bends and rotate them to create the proper offset
    4. Add a cleanout above the tees, below the 1/8 bends? (I have no cleanout in the house, just one in the yard that angles towards the street)
    4. Replace the Santees with new ones that will be faced the way the new kitchen /tub drain branches will enter the stack
    5. Blelow the tees, reconnect the PVC to the cast that goes into the ground w/ a banded coupling.

    But, if I do it this way, can the PVC take the vertical load of the stack on it? Is there something that should be used to support the stack to keep the weight off of the PVC? is it OK to just rest the PVC on top of the cast not at a hub?
    Or is this a no-no, and the only way is to transition back to cast where there is a hub? (IE: Dig down until you find one!)
  2. get a band clamp

    just cut it up about a foot or two
    and re do the whole thing with a band type no hub clamp
    instead of a fernco

    [​IMG]

    you want to go up to the next hub and install
    some plumbers strapping , loop it around the hub a few times and nail it to the studs to hold the weight in place.

    whatever it takes to get the weigh t off...
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 14, 2009
  3. Nate R

    Nate R New Member

    Messages:
    472
    Location:
    Milwaukee, WI
    Is there another option to support it? What if there isn't a hub available? The next hub up from the one pictured is in a stairway where it is painted and pretty and visible.

    Although, if I combine the kitchen sink, bathtub, and washing machine together into a 3" line just before the stack, I could use one santee. That may give me enough room to add a cleanout and the 1/16 bend offsets w/o even cutting any cast, and thus I could use the hub in the picture for support.
  4. I just swiped that picture; proof ferncos have no place above ground, ever.
  5. hj

    hj Moderator & Master Plumber Staff Member

    Messages:
    26,831
    Location:
    Cave Creek, Arizona
    stack

    The only thing the included picture shows is a joint done by a handyman who did not know how to do it correctly. We cannot answer any of your questions based on that picture which shows nothing else. The stack should be straight once you remove that illegal Fernco, so you should not need any offsets.
  6. Nate R

    Nate R New Member

    Messages:
    472
    Location:
    Milwaukee, WI
    The stack is not straight. The house may have been lifted slightly at some point to replace the sill plates. If not, there has been substantial settling due to someone cutting a joist which may have changed the way things line up. The cast does seem to be level and plumb. The rest of the stack below this joint IS at a slight angle. So, there is an offset. Not real visible in this pic, but you can see that the PVC is at a different angle than the cast if you squint. Where the PVC transitions back to cast w/ another fernco, that one is straight and the PVC is inline with the cast going into the ground.

    The joints above this point in the cast appear to be OK. No cracking around them through the paint on the pipe, etc.

    I didn't take more pics to show what I have because there's stuff in the way. I guess my thinking was that it's not really relevant to the real questions I have. (And it's hard to get a pic of what's going on below the floor)

    My point was to explain what I was trying to do: I want to fix this with an offset, and that will give me an oppurunity to add a cleanout if I'm ripping out a section anyway. Just wanted to explain why my thought was on what I'd do.

    I guess that really just left me w/ 2 questions:

    A) Can PVC support the weight of the stack above reasonably, or do I need to take the weight off of it? Is a small offset w/ 2 1/16 street bends going to change that if it is OK to support the stack?

    B) What would be the proper way to transition from Cast to PVC like this? I'm reading elsewhere that using a no-hub to connect PVC to Cast when you have 2 bald ends (ie: Not at a hub) is the preferred method. But I wanted to confirm that with a decent source.

    I think Mark's answer takes care of both. I may be able to fit everything I need in between the existing missing section of Cast. But If I need the room and have to cut out more cast, I'm wondering how to support the stack at a point between hubs?
    Last edited: Jan 14, 2009
  7. hj

    hj Moderator & Master Plumber Staff Member

    Messages:
    26,831
    Location:
    Cave Creek, Arizona
    stack

    The PVC will not support the cast iron, but ALL of the plumbing above the basement connected to the cast iron will hold it up, unless the building is in such poor shape that everything will collapse into the basement, in which case the house should already be condemned. Some inspectors do not consider a No-Hub coupling to be a proper transition between ABS/PVC and cast iron. They want a transition coupling specific to the two different materials, and they want it installed so they can read the label. At one time, the two sections of cast iron should have been connected. And since cast iron does not bend, the pipes should have been in alignment. The only way they should be misaligned would be if the house had moved laterally, and that might also be cause to condemn it.
  8. Nate R

    Nate R New Member

    Messages:
    472
    Location:
    Milwaukee, WI
    A clog in main line forced me to fix this stack issue so I could add a cleanout. You were right, the stack was straight, and the hack job was crooked.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    Now to this, with temporary jack (NOT leaving that there!)

    [​IMG]

    One more thing I can check off the list. There's probably 20 more in that picture alone. The wall behind it, the supply lines, etc.
  9. Redwood

    Redwood Master Plumber

    Messages:
    7,450
    Location:
    Connecticut
  10. Nate R

    Nate R New Member

    Messages:
    472
    Location:
    Milwaukee, WI
    Sure was! Mark commented on it:

    The larger primer cans have larger brushes. A LOT harder to control how much gets on there! But, by the time I got to reconnecting the venting, I just wanted it done. So I made sure there was enough! :p So I was sloppier than I would've liked with the primer. But, it's a closet. And now it's done properly, which is all that really matters, right? :)
  11. Terry

    Terry Administrator Staff Member

    Messages:
    15,129
    Location:
    Bothell, Washington
    Right.
    That coupling looks much better.
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