Fitting Toto to 13 7/16 rough-in to wall, but less with baseboard and shoe molding

Discussion in 'Toilet Forum discussions' started by Reach4, Jul 30, 2014.

  1. Reach4

    Reach4 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,432
    Location:
    IL
    With the old knobs in place, I measured 13 7/16 rough-in to wall. I figured that one of the toilets that would take the 14-inch Unifit would fill the bill. I was between the Soiree and Vespin II. I bought the Unifit, and pulled the old toilet. Hmm. Soldered cast iron flange was in good shape. Moving that is impractical since it is on like a tee on a cast iron pipe that goes at right angles to the toilet centerline.

    With the 3/4 spacing to the wall, and the ability to "cheat" I had figured no problem. My first shock was when I tried placing the Unifit over the bolts. There was interference with the shoe molding.

    Since my flange has 3.5 inches ID and the outlet of the Unifit is about 2 1/4 inch, I figure to do a little cutting on the Unifit slots to let the Unifit move away from the wall . But how much? I realized that the Soiree does not have any rear taper for clearing
    baseboard or shoe molding. This picture said it to me:

    [​IMG]

    Then more carefully looking for other pictures confirmed that the Soiree is not going to be the best fit. I want an elongated toilet with Saniflush. I know I will have to do a little slot-enlargement on the Unifit. I want to minimize how far the toilet extends into the room. I could remove the shoe molding behind the toilet, but I would rather not. Which of these would best fit.

    Aimes, Guinivere, Carlyle , Vespin II, Lloyd, Legato are somewhat candidates. Carlysle might not deal with the supply nipple CL being 6 6/8 inches from the toilet CL (could cheat that a tad too) and 6 1/4 from the outer edge of that nipple.

    Suggestions?

    T_unifit_top.jpg

    I am running across an upload limit, so I will add another picture or two on a separated post.
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 29, 2014
  2. Reach4

    Reach4 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,432
    Location:
    IL
    T_unifit_side2.jpg
    Last edited: Aug 1, 2014
  3. jadnashua

    jadnashua Retired Defense Industry Engineer xxx

    Messages:
    22,153
    Location:
    New England
    Personally, I'd probably just cut the shoe molding. But, see that straight section in the UniFit adapter? Carefully measure the OD of that pipe. If it is a standard size, you could cut it, use a special tool to ream out the socket, and then glue in a slightly shorter section of pipe. I'm not recommending this, but at least one other person has tried it on the board. Not sure how easy it would be to find compatible pipe, or what kind of cement would be required to make the bond, so there are a lot of unknowns here. At the worst, you use the 12" Unifit, and cheat it back towards the wall some.
  4. Reach4

    Reach4 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,432
    Location:
    IL
    Vespin II and Carlisle II look like the best of the Unifit toilets for proving clearance in that area-- with Vespin II maybe a tiny bet better. Carlisle may be close but it might be tight in clearing the water supply. T_Vespin1.png
  5. fullysprinklered

    fullysprinklered Member

    Messages:
    204
    Location:
    Georgia
    Totos are great; I've been putting them in my houses since I first discovered them some years ago. They made the first 1.6 that actually worked well, in my opinion.
    I want to mention a couple of things about the unifit system.

    first, there's a learning curve to deal with if you've never done one. I felt like a monkey playing with a football when I opened up my first one. I don't know the various types by name, but you had to install these cleats in the floor and the toilet screws screwed into these from the side. Nothing wrong with the fixture; high quality piece of china, but I'm glad I did the job on an hourly rate. More involved than the traditional toilet, so don't bid it like it's the same old thing

    second, as mentioned, the base goes all the way to the baseboard. If the stop is tucked in behind the toilet, you might have to make some adjustments. Another possible unexpected and time consuming issue.

    third, on my last Unifit install, they had installed the dreaded porcelain tile, and I burned up every masonry and glass bit I had trying to install the four screws in the back wings of the unifit fitting. Advice would be welcome on this issue.
  6. jadnashua

    jadnashua Retired Defense Industry Engineer xxx

    Messages:
    22,153
    Location:
    New England
    SOme porcelain tile is nearly as hard as diamond, so the tile will just laugh at a carbide bit!

    THe answer to this is to use a diamond core bit. A few minutes per hole, and if you do it properly, the bit will last many holes. The key to this is to not apply too much pressure, keep the bit wet, and don't run the rpm super high. A diamond core bit acts more like it is sanding a hole than traditional cutting with chips.

    It helps on tile to use a rope of plumber's putty and make a dam around where the hole will go, then fill it with some water. On a vertical surface, use a spray bottle and keep the bit wet. The prices of the things vary, as do their quality. The cheaper ones won't take a lot of abuse, but any tool will last longer if you take care of it.
  7. Terry

    Terry Administrator Staff Member

    Messages:
    15,130
    Location:
    Bothell, Washington
    If you move the bolts away from the wall, you can move the adapter. We sometimes use a flange repair ring for that.
    We also can get by with a 1/4" rotohammer a lot of the time.
    We charge the same for a TOTO with Unifit and the same for the standard Drake. It's all the same to us.
    We do charge more for the Aquia install, because they have the blocks that need setting toward the back.

    Sometimes we need to do something with the shutoff if it's right behind the bowl.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    Most of the time the shutoff is off to the side though.
  8. Reach4

    Reach4 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,432
    Location:
    IL
    Instead of using the 14 inch Unifit, I used the 12 inch. The hole in the cast iron flange was 3.5 inch diameter. The 2.25 inch exhaust port on the unifit is offset away from the wall. The hole for the Unifit is just past the inside of the cast iron hole, so there is no interference. T_unifit_as_built2.jpg

    I did that a couple weeks ago. Initially I have only shimmed enough under the toilet to give mult-point support of the base. I am thinking about shimming more in the back to bring the seat porcelain surface level. I have not sealed the edge yet. It does not look tilted by eye, but the level shows a tilt.
    Last edited: Aug 25, 2014
  9. cjfling

    cjfling New Member

    Messages:
    7
    Mr. Love,

    I'm doing a remodel with a similar situation as the valve in your post #7. I was wondering if you could tell me brand/part numbers for the right angle adapter & compact shutoff valve you show in your top picture? In my situation the supply pipe sticks out about 5 inches from the wall and the handle of the valve is hitting the side of my Soiree. I think if I have either the right angle adagpter and/or compact shut off valve you show I can get by. The pipe might be able to be shortened, but I don't know if threads can be cut back into the copper pipe in such a compact location.

    Thanks,
    Jason


  10. Terry

    Terry Administrator Staff Member

    Messages:
    15,130
    Location:
    Bothell, Washington
    [​IMG]

    Dahl 33-2386-A valve for an offset installation.
  11. cjfling

    cjfling New Member

    Messages:
    7
    Many thanks Mr. Love. I'm going to try a straight through valve, I can find here locally, with the handle to the opposite side and see if this gives me enough clearance first, but this is going to be my fall back option. I really only need about a 1/2 inch. I don't know what code was in 1978 when the house was built, but the supply line pipe is only about 5 inches from the center line of the flange.
  12. Terry

    Terry Administrator Staff Member

    Messages:
    15,130
    Location:
    Bothell, Washington
    There is no plumbing code for where to put the supply line. It can be anywhere the plumber wants to put it.
    That doesn't always mean it won't hit the bowl or tank though.
    The newer bowls use a longer trapway to increase pull on the siphon. It does change things a bit.
  13. cjfling

    cjfling New Member

    Messages:
    7
    Thanks again for the code clarification. It's just not as clean as install compared to your images. All the supply lines have a 5" to 7" nipples sticking out the sheet rock instead of having a nice install flush with the sheet rock. Of course being an older house, who knows who messed with it along the way. I thought about changing to a shorter nipples, but didn't want to press my luck as I don't know if the lines are securely attached to the studs. Again many thanks.
  14. wjcandee

    wjcandee Wise One

    Messages:
    1,898
    Location:
    New York, NY
    Can you use a compression angle stop (like the Dahl one) there? Just cut the pipe a bit, leaving as much as you reasonably can, and just attach the stop with the compression ring. That way, no need to "thread" the pipe.
  15. cjfling

    cjfling New Member

    Messages:
    7
    I don't know why not. As long as the cutting action doesn't break the soldered joint in the wall. After doing that, I might get away with a standard, straight 1/4 turn valve putting the handle opposite the toilet. Thx
  16. cjfling

    cjfling New Member

    Messages:
    7
    Mr. Love,

    On the Dahl 33-2386-A, do you remember if on the 1/2 inch end there is a swivel for bolting it on or do you have to rotate the whole valve around to tighten it? If the later, I think I'll have clearance issues with the floor. From your picture, I'd say it has a swivel as you are pretty close to the floor also.

    Thanks


  17. Terry

    Terry Administrator Staff Member

    Messages:
    15,130
    Location:
    Bothell, Washington
    This is a compression stop for copper.
    Do you need something for threaded pipe?
  18. cjfling

    cjfling New Member

    Messages:
    7
    Wjcandee,

    On second thought, I can't use the compression idea because what I'd be cutting is brass pipe and not copper. The piece that is sticking out of the wall is a brass nipple screwed into a copper fitting/pipe. I'm considering trying to remove the nipple and install a shorter one, but I don't think the fitting is anchored in the wall as it should be. I'm concerned about cracking the copper.

  19. cjfling

    cjfling New Member

    Messages:
    7
    That was for something Wjcandee suggested, but I think he thought I was dealing with copper and thus suggested cutting and using a compression valve. What I was wondering from you was on the Dahl 33-2386-A you mentioned, do you remember if on the 1/2 inch end there is a swivel for bolting it on without having to rotate the whole valve or do you have to rotate the whole valve around to tighten it? If the later, I think I'll have clearance issues with the floor. From your picture, I'd say it has a swivel as you are pretty close to the floor also. The nipple I'm dealing with is threaded brass which is where the 33-2386-A comes in. Thx

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