finishing 1500 sq ft basement, wiring from scratch to subpanel

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CompletelyHis

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I am finishing my basement. it will have 3 bedrooms, theater room, bathroom, kitchen/multipurpose room, laundry, and an a/v closet.

Here are a few opener questions:
1. do the smoke alarms have to be on a dedicated circuit
2. is it better to wire it based on type of load (all lights for bedrooms on one circiut, all outlets on the other), or should I wire it based on location (these rooms on one circuit, those rooms on one circuit)?

I am thinking I could do all three rooms on two circuits, one for lights, one for outlets...this may or may not include hall and "living room." I know there is no NEC requirement to how many outlets/lights can be ran on a certain circuit, but generally speaking, would that make sense? the lights for the hall, three rooms, and the living/kitchen room would total 10 can lights...i plan on puting some CFLs in at least 4 of them, maybe 60 wat in the others. outlets won't run anything super heavy (tile in rooms, so no vac.). just tv's and computers, mainly.
 

Bob NH

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I would to it by usage.

Bathroom - Needs a 20 Amp circuit, per code
Kitchen - Needs two 20 Amp circuits, per code. I would run a multiwire branch circuit but some don't trust DIYs to use them. May need separate circuits for range/oven/microwave/refrigerator.
Laundry - Needs a 20 Amp circuit per code. Dryer circuit if electric dryer.
A/V closet - I would run a 20 Amp multiwire branch circuit to serve only the A/V systems. You could run the same circuits to serve the surround sound system or run an additional circuit for those speakers. I would put lighting on a different circuit than the A/V systems.
Computer center, if there is one - One dedicated circuit.
Smokes on the hallway lighting circuit so you will know if the silly Arc-detect breaker trips.
Lighting and other receptacles on a couple of circuits as convenient for wiring.

Depending on the location relative to the main panel, you may want to put some of this on a sub-panel.

I did a lot of rewiring in my basement where the ceiling was accessible and ran some 1/2" PVC conduit with THHN for things like the A/V area and other circuits. It makes it easy to run multiple circuits and minimizes the grounds and neutrals if you use MWBCs. You can run 2 MWBCs from the panel to a junction box using only 7 conductors, and then separate off 4 circuits to wherever you need to go.

You can run 1/2" PVC therough studs and joists about as easy as you can run Romex.
 

KD

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I recommend that you do not run any multiwire circuits(shared neutrals) because AFCI will not work on them. If you are an amateur, you will not know what a multi wire circuit is or how to follow the additional rules, or how an appliance will receive 240 volts if you make a mistake, anyway.
I like the idea of running conduit, like smurf, to computer locations, especially for phone and cable so it can be upgraded.
 

Frenchie

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I am finishing my basement. it will have 3 bedrooms

Off-topic to your question, but fire codes require a 2nd means of egress from any bedroom, big enough for a fireman & his gear to get in/out by.

I don't know where you are, but here it's 5 square feet; minimum 20" wide, minimum 24" inches high, and the the sill has to be no more than 44" off the floor.

If you need a window well to accomplish any of that, it has to be 9 sq ft "net clear" area - that means besides the room you need to open the window/door - and has to project at least 36" out. If it's more than 44" deep, it needs a permanent ladder or stairs.

Please note: it's not just the people sleeping there whose lives are potentially at stake, but also firemen's.
 

Alectrician

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1. do the smoke alarms have to be on a dedicated circuit

No but they will likely have to be tied to the upstairs ones or, if there are none upstairs, you may have to add them.


2. is it better to wire it based on type of load (all lights for bedrooms on one circiut, all outlets on the other), or should I wire it based on location

General lighting/outlet circuits based on location. The more circuits you run, the better the system will be.

2 kitchen circuits for the outlets.

1 for the DW/Disposal

1 if you have a built in micro.

1 laundry

1 bath recep

WH, Range, dryer gas???

HVAC?
 

CompletelyHis

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Wow...lots of good replies! in regards to the 2nd means of egress...it's a daylight basement, I'll have windows in all three bedrooms.

as to the service carrying the additional load, I did a load calculation, and my 200amp service should be fine.

So generally, I should do the circuits based on location. I'll do the ones that are required, first, like the 2 20 amp to the kitchen, 1 20amp to the bathroom, the laundry rooom. Then I'll run the dedicated(s) to the a/v room. I'll take whats left over and use it up for bedrooms, hallway, "living room" and so on, leaving several left over for future use.

Alectrician,
you mentioned that the new SD will likely have to be tied to the existing SD. Is that a code that is going to be dependant on local requirements? My concern there would be that I don't know how they did the existing SDs, I don't think they did it on a dedicated circuit (easy enough to tell).

I'm installing all of this on a 100 amp sub panel. I'm struggling with where to put the darn thing. upon researching it, i know that it cannot be in a clothes closet, or in a bathroom. well, there go my two favorite places! I have a laundry "area" which is an oversized "nook" for the washer/dryer, it's accessible via the bathroom though. Think I could put it there? If not, I have a laundry chute that goes to a type of "closet" in the hall way. originally it was planned to be a coat closet as well...would that be an ok location? The only other option would be my A/V room. Closer to the main panel upstairs in the garage, but not my first choice, for some reason unbeknowns to me!
 

Bob NH

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I have seen subpanels in hallways and nooks. I saw one that was behind a frame and panel that was on hinges. You could even put a picture in the frame. The laundry room is not prohibited by code.
 

CompletelyHis

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not sure if it is considered a "launry room" though...an inspector could make a case for it being "laundry facilities accessible via bathroom."

I like the hallway idea...I have a 5'x5' area that is going to be built in shelves and such, or, like you said, i could always cover it up w/ a nice framed picture.

I was just looking over my NEC notes, and noticed that NEC "recommends" no more than 3% voltage drop when laying out wiring. So for 12g wire, they "recommend" no more than 60' runs. That's pretty short! I plan on running 12/2 everywhere. The panel will be somewhat centrally located, but still, I know for a fact that I would exceed the 60' "recommendation." How concerned should I be about that?

Follow-up thought on SD hookup. Bob NH - am I correct in hearing that you say I should hook up the SD to the arc fault circuit/s the bedroom/s will be on?

also, I assume there is no problem putting bedroom lights on an arc fault circuit, along with the outlets?
 

JWelectric

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not sure if it is considered a "launry room" though...an inspector could make a case for it being "laundry facilities accessible via bathroom."
If you install the panel in the laundry room make sure you have the clearances, 36 inches deep and 30 inches side to side

I like the hallway idea...I have a 5'x5' area that is going to be built in shelves and such, or, like you said, i could always cover it up w/ a nice framed picture.
watch putting it in area that the inspector would call a closet

I was just looking over my NEC notes, and noticed that NEC "recommends" no more than 3% voltage drop when laying out wiring. So for 12g wire, they "recommend" no more than 60' runs. That's pretty short! I plan on running 12/2 everywhere. The panel will be somewhat centrally located, but still, I know for a fact that I would exceed the 60' "recommendation." How concerned should I be about that?
This is a recommendation ONLY. In the past 40 years of doing electrical I haven’t ran into a voltage drop issue except on well pumps. I don’t believe that you will be loading a circuit to its max to start with.

Follow-up thought on SD hookup. Bob NH - am I correct in hearing that you say I should hook up the SD to the arc fault circuit/s the bedroom/s will be on?
The building codes will require that all smokes be interconnected.

also, I assume there is no problem putting bedroom lights on an arc fault circuit, along with the outlets?
any box installed in the bedrooms require Arc Fault protection. This includes but not limited to lights, smokes, receptacles ect…
 

CompletelyHis

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JW,
my wife and I just agreed this AM on a location for the panel...a study nook in one of the bedrooms. as to smoke detectors - Are you saying I need to tie all 7 of the new SDs into the 5 existing ones? The 5 existing ones are not on an arc fault circuit...am I going to have to rewire them?

My options would be:
1. wire new 7 ones on a new arc fault circuit, not connecting to existing SDs (against code?)
2. replace breaker in existing panel w/ arc fault, tap into existing SD circuit, connect new SD's to it.
3. install new arc fault circuit, connect SDs to it, disconnect existing SDs from panel (if on dedicated circuit), and tap into new circuit.

#1 would be easiest, #3 would be least desirable, in my opinion.
 

CompletelyHis

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I just spoke w/ the electrical inspector, and it sounds like I'll be doing option #2, tapping in to existing SD circuit and replacing the circuit w/ an arc fault one at the existing panel
 

Jadnashua

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My preferred SD (and may be code now) is an ac powered SD with battery backup. Depending on the one you have, the manufacturer may specify an independent circuit, and then, even if not specifically called out for in the code, would mandate a separate circuit as it has a clause that says install to manufacturer spec's. I think you might have problems with the interconnected trigger line if they were not all on the same circuit, but that is a guess. You may also have compatibility problems with the trigger line if they are not all from the same manufacturer, too (although I do not know this for fact). Careful reading of the manufacturer's documentation is called for here.

In a computer room, you may want to provide multiple runs if possible in case you end up with a laser printer. SOmetimes, the heater on them can cause some hassles when they cycle on and off. This was much more true on the older ones, but could be an issue.
 

Lakee911

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My preferred SD (and may be code now) is an ac powered SD with battery backup. Depending on the one you have, the manufacturer may specify an independent circuit, and then, even if not specifically called out for in the code, would mandate a separate circuit as it has a clause that says install to manufacturer spec's.

Someone once told me, maybe on this board, that by putting it on a lighting circuit one wouldn't just open the breaker to shut the dang thing off when the bacon is burning because then the lights go out too. If they could just open the breaker to shut it off and nothing else is effected then they're likely to leave it that way. If it has no power, it won't help--unless it has battery too. That is always a good idea. :)

Jason
 

Jadnashua

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The ones I have also have a momentary cancel that shuts it up for about 5-minutes (unless it is REALLY smokey). Bought a contractor pack of them at HD for about $60, or $10 each.
 
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