Faulty check valve or faulty pump

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K Paterson

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Well 150' feet deep
Meyers pump located in the well
Check valve in the pump, check valve located right at bladder tank

Sometimes my pressure switch 40/60 turns on (closes) at 40psi ; however, I get no sound of water rushing into my lines. I count to 30 or 40secs and then have water. I have concluded it must be faulty check valve in the pump and I am slowing losing all the water down the 150' of well piping OR the pump receives power at 40psi turn on; however, the pump doesn't turn on right away. Can I put a meter on the power line at the pressure switch to see if pump is actually working and that water is slowly coming up the line in the well?

Problem is when using water in the house, switch turns on asking for more water, no new water enters house and the pressure is dropping rapidly. As water now getting closer to top of the line, the pressure is now at 30psi and the switch kicks off permanently for safety factor. now requires manual reset.

What you pro's think?

Thanks

Ken
 

DonL

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I am no well pro, Just know how stuff works.

Yes, A amp probe / amp meter would tell you a bit about what the pump is doing. Or you are just guessing.

If you measure voltage and it is not drawing the correct current, It could be the pump motor or a loose electrical connection going to the motor. (or control box problems,relay/cap)

Problem may not be electrical, but is easy to check and verify, without pulling the pump.


Good Luck.
 
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Valveman

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Yes put an amp meter around one of the hot wires. If the pump is pulling max amps while you are waiting on water to get to the top, then the pump is working. If you are not getting any amps until the “water hits the top” then there is a delay in starting the pump for some reason. Ie; loose connection, clogged pressure switch, etc.

If the drop pipe is draining down after the pump shuts off, I don’t understand why you are not getting a lot of air out the faucets. Maybe you have a bad check valve on the pump and a big leak at the top which lets the air back out like an air vent.

Removing the above ground check valve will also help you identify the problem. Without the upper check, when the pump shuts off, if the pressure instantly starts dropping and the pump is restarted, you have a bad lower check or a hole in the pipe or both.
 

LLigetfa

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Yes put an amp meter around one of the hot wires. If the pump is pulling max amps while you are waiting on water to get to the top, then the pump is working...

Max amps is a subjective value and I have to wonder if you meant max running amps and not max starting amps. If you have a bad starting cap or control box, the max amps could be the start current.

I don't know enough about the pump to say for sure.

I suggest the topside checkvalve be removed unless it is part of an airmaker (snifter/bleeder).
 

K Paterson

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Great information, I promise to keep you posted. I will remove top check valve right away. I just installed this check valve recently, and yes the problem started recently. Yes I do have air in my lines when turning on the taps; however, I have a massi air injector system. Update coming.
 

LLigetfa

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I have a massi air injector system. Update coming.

Usually air injection is done with hydro-pneumatic tanks that have an AVC, not bladder tanks. I had a neighbor that used a bladder tank with air injection for iron precipitation. Not only did the precipitated iron gum up the tank, but the air would accumulate inside the media tank until it was 100% air, then it would burp over to the softener until it too was 100% full, then it would start blowing out the faucets. That signaled for him to backwash the iron filter. The system was a mess.

Some folk will replace a hydro-pneumatic tank with a bladder tank and not remove the airmaker.
 

K Paterson

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update

I installed a pressure gauge right at the spot where my water line enters the house, then I left in the check valve after this. This would then tell me if over time the pressure was falling in the line in the ground. Problem would then be faulty check valve or hole in line. Well, the pressure doesn't fall one single bit! What I have found is the pressure switch kicks in, but it takes the pump exactly 90 secs to kick on. So to me it seems like a faulty starter capacitor that is built into the pump. I do not have the capacitor in the house. It must be in the pump.
 

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No pump will wait 90 seconds to come on. If the start cap were bad, it would buzz at high amps for a couple of seconds and trip the overload. This maybe happening and after 90 seconds the overload resets itself and the pump actually starts the second time.

You are still going to need to clip on and amp meter to see what is going on. Is the pump pulling any amps for those 90 seconds or not?

You could at least check to see if there is voltage going out of the pressure switch for those 90 seconds. If not then you have a power problem. If there is voltage going to the motor, then we need to know how many amps it is pulling.
 

LLigetfa

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No pump will wait 90 seconds to come on. If the start cap were bad, it would buzz at high amps for a couple of seconds and trip the overload. This maybe happening and after 90 seconds the overload resets itself and the pump actually starts the second time...

90 seconds is an eternity when it comes to starter winding amps. Unless the thermal overload trips and resets, it should be tripping the main breaker unless the breaker is oversized and/or the wire is undersized.

You need to measure the amps.
 

Reach4

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I do not have the capacitor in the house. It must be in the pump.
If the pump is a classic 2-wire pump, expect the pump motor to be a split-phase motor rather than having a start capacitor down-hole.
 
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DonL

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If the pump is a classic 2-wire pump, expect the pump motor to be a shaded pole motor rather than having a start capacitor down-hole.


It is most likely a split-phase motor with a switch and could have a cap.

A shaded pole motor may not get the job started.
 

Reach4

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I can agree with split phase.

I have found that new Goulds and Pentair 2-wire pumps have a PSC (Permanent Split Capacitor) down-hole. It is not an electrolytic and it does not get switched out like a start capacitor would. It gives higher starting torque than split phase, and is more efficient.
 
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K Paterson

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I installed a pressure switch right at the entry point of my house. the pressure here never changes when the pump is off. Even after a days work! This tells me at no time am I losing water back down the well. When the pressure relay 40/60 closes the amp meter on the pump winding goes to 18amps. I have no water! 40-89 secs later, still 18amps and no water. 1sec after that I have water flowing, you can easily hear it, and the amp meter goes down to 5amps. Any ideas? Thanks for the continous help.




Well 150' feet deep
Meyers pump located in the well
Check valve in the pump, check valve located right at bladder tank

Sometimes my pressure switch 40/60 turns on (closes) at 40psi ; however, I get no sound of water rushing into my lines. I count to 30 or 40secs and then have water. I have concluded it must be faulty check valve in the pump and I am slowing losing all the water down the 150' of well piping OR the pump receives power at 40psi turn on; however, the pump doesn't turn on right away. Can I put a meter on the power line at the pressure switch to see if pump is actually working and that water is slowly coming up the line in the well?

Problem is when using water in the house, switch turns on asking for more water, no new water enters house and the pressure is dropping rapidly. As water now getting closer to top of the line, the pressure is now at 30psi and the switch kicks off permanently for safety factor. now requires manual reset.

What you pro's think?

Thanks

Ken
 

Cacher_Chick

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It sounds as if there is another check valve in the drop pipe, and the water is draining down below that point due to a leak.

. 90 seconds? Really?
 

Valveman

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3rd update
When the pressure relay 40/60 closes the amp meter on the pump winding goes to 18amps. I have no water! 40-89 secs later, still 18amps and no water. 1sec after that I have water flowing, you can easily hear it, and the amp meter goes down to 5amps.

I see or hear something new everyday. 90 seconds at 18 amps?? It should have tripped the overload in the motor. Sounds like the pump/motor is locked up, or the start capacitor is no good, AND the overload in the motor is not working. Working like this your pump is on borrowed time. One of these mornings soon, it will just fail to come on at all.
 

Reach4

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I installed a pressure switch right at the entry point of my house. the pressure here never changes when the pump is off. Even after a days work! This tells me at no time am I losing water back down the well. When the pressure relay 40/60 closes the amp meter on the pump winding goes to 18amps. I have no water! 40-89 secs later, still 18amps and no water. 1sec after that I have water flowing, you can easily hear it, and the amp meter goes down to 5amps. Any ideas? Thanks for the continous help.

You are sure there is no start capacitor in the wiring path to the well casing? The wires from the pressure switch go right to the well without going through a box first?

In that case, you have a "2-wire" pump that has gone bad. A start capacitor would have been a much cheaper fix.
 

K Paterson

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I have had this out before, and there is no other check valve in the line. Stopped at store I purchased it at and they said it was the starter windings, and eventually they will burn out. This is a Myers pump 2ST52-8-P4 0.5HP 230V 8GPM 6amps
 

Reach4

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Fits your symptoms.

How long did this pump last you?

How long does the pump stay on each time it starts without you using a high volume of water (starting from when it starts pumping)?
 

K Paterson

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turning on a tap and hit 40psi when the pump kicks on and actually works it will pump water for 45secs to reach 60psi. Basically normal pump time. 100% there is not start capacitor anywhere. They said it had starter windings....something like that. If something is really really strange is going to happen to someone, trust me, it will happen to me. How about a hole in the casing 40 deep, and right at that point there is sand, which keeps filling the welll. Guess what that happened to my 15yr old well, 4 yrs ago. That is why this pump was new 4 yrs ago. The sand burnt out the old pump. The put a sleeve in the well!
 
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