Extension Terminology for Popup Drain

Discussion in 'Plumbing Forum, Professional & DIY Advice' started by baumgrenze, Jul 7, 2014.

  1. baumgrenze

    baumgrenze Member

    Messages:
    32
    Location:
    California
    I want to install a 885209820 HansGrohe popup assembly like the one illustrated in the attached image.

    [​IMG]

    My sink is a Ronbow RON-CB4002 ceramic above counter vessel sink with overflow mounted on Caesarstone over two layers of 3/4" Baltic birch plywood. This puts the horizontal rod too close to the underside of the overall counter for straightforward fitting and operation.

    The drain outlet flange appears to be a straight pipe thread, 1.285" across the threads and 13 threads/inch (best match to a thread gauge in my tap&die set. This thre

    Since the drain outlet flange (1-1/2 ") threads into the horizontal lever tee as a separate piece, it seems to me that it might be feasible to insert a brass extension.

    I have actual photos of the fitting, but they are 5x too big to upload. I can try resizing if someone thinks they would be preferable.

    [​IMG]

    Attached Files:

    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 25, 2014
  2. Terry

    Terry Administrator Staff Member

    Messages:
    15,121
    Location:
    Bothell, Washington
    Normally on a vessel lav, you need to use a drain for that. Some come with manual drain stoppers.
    The pop-up assembly you have pictured does have a threaded tailpiece, which threads in. They make longers ones, or you can extend that.
    I don't know if you can extend to top of it though.

    [​IMG]

    Kohler K-7127
    Last edited: Jul 25, 2014
  3. baumgrenze

    baumgrenze Member

    Messages:
    32
    Location:
    California
    I have to apologize for the bungled post. I started it last night. I thought I'd abandoned it and just copied and saved the temporary content to a Word document. Now I see that I did not carefully edit the 'abandoned post' which popped up when I logged in today. Somehow I missed entering some information I wanted to post. Here's what I wanted to say:

    The drain outlet flange appears to be a straight pipe thread, 1.285" across the threads and 13 threads/inch (best match to a thread gauge in my tap&die set. The diameter appears to nearly match the 1.3" of 1" pipe but the tpi count is not 11.5. The wall is thinner than most pipe. The last 1/4" is a bit thicker so that the id is about 1.104" and just inside the flange it is more like 1.141". I rechecked the tpi by counting and make it either 13 or 14 depending on whether or not I start with the first thread just where it starts to appear.

    What I hoped to find specs for is a 'street ell' without a bend that would give me 0.75 - 1" extra length.

    This thread specification is not one I can find by web search for pipe and/or bolts. For bolts 1" is 8 tpi coarse, 12 tpi fine, and 20 tpi extra fine.

    Does anyone know the thread size and thread count for a 'standard' drain outlet flange (if there is such a thing?)

    Could it be that HansGrohe makes this part to metric standards? Clearly the tailpiece od is 1.25 (1-1/4) inches and fits our standard drain pipe. I see that it has a finer thread where it mates with the tee.

    I am beginning to conclude that this device does not match any standard threads.

    I hope this post makes more sense.

    thanks

    baumgrenze
  4. baumgrenze

    baumgrenze Member

    Messages:
    32
    Location:
    California
    I thought I'd take a minute and share my solutions to the problems I eventually encountered.

    1) I found that the horizontal rod ended up exactly at the same level as the underside of the two layers of plywood. I used a 1-3/4" Forstner bit and a Fein saw to open a 3/4" deep channel through the first layer of plywood. This allowed enough vertical travel space to operate the popup.

    2) The horizontal rod was not quite long enough to reach the vertical lift rod included in the fixture. I extended it by gently increasing the i.d. of a short length of 1/4" copper tubing, first with a tapered punch and finally with an old 5 mm horizontal rod chucked in a portable drill and lubricated with rubbing alcohol. I then used J-B Weld epoxy and the copper sleeve to attach the existing rod and the needed length of 5 mm rod together. This allowed me to use the Hansgrohe swivel connector between the rods. I like the way it works much better than the punched flat strap metal alternative.

    3) The extended horizontal rod was too heavy; the popup would not stay closed. I installed an eighth-inch rod at right angles above and near the end of the horizontal rod, beyond the swivel joint. I looped a length of 50# test braided fish line around the end of the horizontal rod, ran it up over the eighth-inch rod and down to enough lead fishing sinker weights to rebalance the horizontal rod so that the popup stayed both in the open and the closed positions.

    baumgrenze
  5. edwardh1

    edwardh1 Member

    Messages:
    100
    Location:
    South Carolina
    wonder what the code says about balancing weights, and is that 50 pound test enough? wow

    I had a similar situation in a powder room, we jut gave up and just never close the sink drain, a pop up would probably work tho
  6. hj

    hj Moderator & Master Plumber Staff Member

    Messages:
    26,815
    Location:
    Cave Creek, Arizona
    quote; wonder what the code says about balancing weights

    It doesn't say ANYTHING about them, because it is not a health or safety issue. But it does sound like something Rube Goldberg would design.
  7. baumgrenze

    baumgrenze Member

    Messages:
    32
    Location:
    California
    I neglected to mention that I did check to see how much downward force I had to apply to close the drain. It was very close to 16 oz of water in a plastic bottle. Since 2 oz upward force at the end of the horizontal rod balances the weight of the popup the relative lengths of the horizontal rod on either side of the pivot ball must be 1:8. I uploaded an image. It is simple and elegant, not Rube Goldberg at all. The line simply passes up to a short bit of rod, then back to a second (so that the lines do not twist and tangle) and down to the weights.
    MasterBathUnderVanityPopupCounterweight.jpg
    I just checked the fishing line I used. I saved it when my late father (11/6/11 - 12/13/98) died. I read the spool end too quickly. It once held 50 yards of Horrocks-Ibbotson prestretched 72 pound test braided nylon surf casting and squidding line. Dad must have purchased it from a sale table. It was marked down to $0.88. Why he bought it we'll never know. He spent his 25 years of retirement fishing on Lake Winnibigoshish, the first major impoundment on the Mississippi in Minesota where there is not surf (to speak of) nor are there any squid. Maybe he thought he'd come visit me on the left coast and go surf casting.
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