Extending The Well Casing

Discussion in 'Pumps and Tanks Well Forum & Blog' started by tsingerjr, Mar 2, 2009.

  1. tsingerjr

    tsingerjr New Member

    Messages:
    13
    My current well casing setup is below ground level about 2 feet. The drilled the well into what appears to be an old cistern. The water level never covers the top of the cap. The bolts on the top are getting really rusted and are starting to deteriorate. Is there any way I can extend the well casing, so that its above ground level, like its suppose to be?
    thanks,

    Tommy
  2. speedbump

    speedbump Previous member

    Messages:
    4,540
    Location:
    Riverview, Fl.
    Sure you can, but you have to either pull the pump first or pull it up so that you can slip the extension down over the droppipe the pump is hanging on. This is assuming you have a submersible pump. You will also need some kind of coupling to fasten the two pipes together. Or you could weld it on if both pieces are metal. You will also have to deal with the wire feeding the pump and the pipe leading to the house.

    You might want to look into a pitless adaptor if your in freeze country.

    bob...
  3. tsingerjr

    tsingerjr New Member

    Messages:
    13
    I have a jetpump that is located in the basement.
  4. masterpumpman

    masterpumpman New Member

    Messages:
    729
    Location:
    Virginia Beach, VA
    Yep, you can!

    However as Speedbump says, you will have to remove the drop pipe from the well first, then extend the casing to at least 1 foot above ground (a requirement in most states) and you may want to consider installing a pitless adapter as well.
  5. tsingerjr

    tsingerjr New Member

    Messages:
    13
    Drop Pipe

    I attached pictures of my current setup. Is the drop pipe threaded?
    Am I correct in assuming the following steps:
    1) Remove the drop pipe
    2) Remove the copper discharge 1/2" line seen in attached pic
    3) Remove the cap
    4) Insert pitless adapter and re-attach drop pipe
    5) Extend Casing and install new cap

    Attached Files:

  6. speedbump

    speedbump Previous member

    Messages:
    4,540
    Location:
    Riverview, Fl.
    Wow, I would be very worried about that water sitting around my casing like that. Contamination could easily get into your well.

    Your steps may or may not be correct. A lot depends on what kind, type or brand pitless you are going to use.

    Where does the 1/2" pipe go and what does it connect to or what does it do? I would have thought it was the wire from a submersible pump, but I'm not even sure you have a sub.

    bob...
  7. tsingerjr

    tsingerjr New Member

    Messages:
    13
    1/2" Pipe

    The 1/2" copper pipe extends up about 2' and then has a 90' elbow at the top. WHat type of pitless adapter do you recommend? Regarding the water around the pipe, the water is always about 1 1/2 feet deep.
  8. sammyhydro11

    sammyhydro11 Previous member

    Messages:
    709
    Location:
    Massachusetts
    That 1/2" pipe is a vent for the well. What you have is poly pipe that goes through the well seal, into the well, and on the end is a foot valve. Extending that well casing is not an easy task for a DIY and should be done in a professional manner so that the joint or the pitless will not leak. Once it is done correctly, that pit should be filled in with clean material. Extending these well casings in the summer time mounts to 25 percent of our work. We either have a certified welder extend them for us, or we use a casing extension adapter and bring up the casing with 6" PVC pipe. Do not by any means extend your well casing using a fernco coupling, they are bad news. Merrill makes that extension adapter. http://www.merrillmfg.com/product/02-PitlessUnits/Pitless-Connectors/features.html

    sammy

    www.tylerwellandpump.com
  9. Gary Slusser

    Gary Slusser That's all folks!

    You do not have a pitless adapter now, the weight of the drop pipe is supported by the elbow resting on the sanitary well seal, the part with the four bolts.

    Here are a couple links to posts here about extending the casing and converting a jet pump to a submersible pump. In the first link there is a discussion concerning a Fernco type seal and PVC as the extension. It is from CT and applies to extensions being a different diameter than the original casing, which PVC will be larger OD than the same size steel casing, which you have.

    The second link has pictures of a casing I extended, in PA where there was no requirement to weld or no prohibition to the use of a Fernco. For what it's worth, PA has the second highest number of residential wells in the country and was number one until TX surpassed PA just a few years ago.

    In most states there is no regulation saying that a homeowner can not work on their own well. Actually I have not heard of any state that prevents it.

    The 3rd is about installing a pitless adapter.

    http://terrylove.com/forums/showthread.php?t=20163&highlight=fernco&page=3

    http://terrylove.com/forums/showthread.php?t=6613&highlight=pitless

    http://terrylove.com/forums/showthread.php?t=25652&highlight=torch
  10. sammyhydro11

    sammyhydro11 Previous member

    Messages:
    709
    Location:
    Massachusetts
    Using a piece of rubber as a joint in a water well spells trouble. Anything in that casing that allows it to move freely will cause major problems. Casing being misaligned can cause the pitless to not be accessed and it wouldn't take much to break the seal on the rubber coupling. Because of contamination issues, Massachusetts requires that a licensed well contractor extends casing. Using that rubber coupling is a poor way to extend casing and that is why Massachusetts is one of the states that doesn't allow it. I suggest hiring a licensed well contractor to handle this job. There are just too many variables involved where a homeowner can screw up.

    sammy

    www.tylerwellandpump.com
  11. Gary Slusser

    Gary Slusser That's all folks!

    The Fernco insures the alignment of the PVC with the steel casing and the PVC rests on the steel casing. The backfilled dirt around the PVC keeps it from moving. A Fernco is pretty tough stuff and very difficult to impossible to break. IIRC it is Neoprene and that has been around for 50 years.

    IMO MA is protecting well drillers' income at the expense of their residential well owners' freedom. I understand they refuse to allow a home owner to install their own water heater too; and possibly a water softener etc..
  12. sammyhydro11

    sammyhydro11 Previous member

    Messages:
    709
    Location:
    Massachusetts
    Gary, you are wrong about your statements. Massachusetts and many other states have put licensing and regulations on water wells to protect the publics health. A water well is a direct conduit to the aquifer and should be constructed in a way that contaminants can not enter the casing. The exams for the licensing consists of a lot questions pertaining to these issues. If there were no licensing requirements or regulations, then a lot of people would be getting sick because of improper well construction. Your fernco coupling idea is an improper way to extend well casing and as a licensed well contractor and certified pump installer by the NGWA, i do not recommend it.

    sammy

    www.tylerwellandpump.com
  13. Gary Slusser

    Gary Slusser That's all folks!

    I don't agree, I say the reason for the regs is simply more government control, and that is political.

    If it was about health as you claim, the EPA would be involved as they are with city water, and they are not (yet), the EPA has no regs for any private wells, and all residential wells are private.

    PA has the second highest number of private residential wells in the country, TX surpassed PA just a few years ago. To my knowledge neither says their well owners can't work on their own well; or that a casing extension has to be welded steel or that no Fernco or similiar fittings be used.

    Can you show us the data to back up your claim that most states have that type regulation. I already posted a link from CT okaying a Fernco type fitting when the diameter of the extension and the existing casing is different. And as you know, PVC and steel are always two different outside diameters; the steel is smaller.

    Since you don't like the idea of a Fernco, and your state requires you to weld the extension, don't use a Fernco or tell others from other states they can't because that is not true.
  14. valveman

    valveman Moderator Staff Member

    Messages:
    4,486
    Location:
    Lubbock, Texas
    I double checked the rules in Texas. I do not see anywhere they would allow anything except rigid casing from 12" above surface and down. Either way the driller and his licence is at stake if the surface completion is not adequate. I would only extend with PVC to PVC and steel to steel, to ensure a bonded connection. I've used Fernco's for extending septic drain fields but I don't think I would risk it on extending well casing.

    Anybody else want to vote on this?

    And yes a home owner can work on his own well in Texas but, it still has to be done up to specifications. You only have to be licensed if you do pump and well work for hire, which I think both of these are good things. We need some way to make home owners doing their own work and professionals responsible for the integrity of the aquifers. However, I will say they have gone tooooo far if the state can make you meter and charge you for every drop of the "state's" water you draw out from under "your" property!! If they get it past where the state actually owns all the water underground, then they should also say the state owns all the minerals such as oil as well.
  15. sammyhydro11

    sammyhydro11 Previous member

    Messages:
    709
    Location:
    Massachusetts
    Gary,so what you are saying is that the installation of water wells shouldn't be regulated??? And regulations is not about the publics safety??? Your way out of line. I thought i had heard it all. States have these regulations so you don't have a situation where someone is driving a well point 2' from a leaching field or installing a water well in an area that is known to be contaminated by a dump, or so someone is not constructing a well in a way that causes surface water contamination. Our state works very closely with the EPA and they set their regulations based on the EPA's regs. If you want to give advice on pulling and replacing a pump Gary, that's fine, but you should leave the well construction part of it alone.

    Man i wish there were more licensed well contractors here!!

    sammy

    www.tylerwellandpump.com
  16. speedbump

    speedbump Previous member

    Messages:
    4,540
    Location:
    Riverview, Fl.
    I agree with Sammy and Valveman on the casing thing. There are far too many wells being leaked into by surface water and other contaminents.

    Here in Florida we have an entity called the Water management district. They are appointed not elected and seem to have their own best interests in mind as oppossed to the publics. The State of Florida owns practically all the Mineral rights under the State and they do meter and charge Farmers and others for their usage. They thought about charging everybody years ago and thought better of it after a little discussion.

    The county I am in (Hillsborough) licensed the Well Drillers then quit then went back and licensed us again then quit again. I guess it didn't make them enough money, and they got tired of moving us out from the Health Department to the Building Department then finally the Plumbing Department. We are still inspected by the Plumbing Department but not licensed anymore. The Water Management District (here it's called the South West Florida WMD) do license Well Drillers. They also require so many hours of schooling per year on what I have no idea because I never renewed mine when they started the school thing. I don't drill anymore and they don't care who services pumps so it really doesn't pertain to me anyway.

    Neither entity cares how much casing is used in the drilling of a well. There is no minimum casing depth. Rotary drillers must grout casing and cable tool drillers are supposed to sprinkle grout material around the casing while driving it into the ground. (Wonder who thought that one up?)

    Very few of their rules and regs make much sense in the protection of the aquifer or the publics health. We naturally don't use Pitless Adaptors here since we have no freeze issues. We do have to leave the casing up 1.5" and or 1.5" above the 100 year flood plain (whatever that is). Yes, I have worked on several wells with the casing sticking more than 20 feet above the ground. It wasn't when I left though.

    I do believe the casing should be terminated above ground not below or in a pit like the post here recently with a picture of the casing down in a hole with water standing around it. Not a good practice.

    I don't like the use of Fernco fittings for anything pertaining to a well. I also believe the casing should be either threaded or welded up to the surface. I have used Dresser Couplings or Compression Couplings when that is all I could convince the customer to pay for. It's better than being terminated below ground at least.

    We have a lot of do it yourselfers here, especially since the downturn in housing market. A lot of them are smart enough to buy from us instead of the Big Box Stores. My Wife likes to tell the DIY'ers that the manufacturer guarantees their products for one year but does not guarantee the homeowners installation. That usually covers all the screw ups. And believe me, there are plenty.

    bob...
    Last edited: Mar 7, 2009
  17. Gary Slusser

    Gary Slusser That's all folks!

    I doubt any of us knows where Tsingerjr is from. Could be Canada, Nova Scotia, Newfoundland, Puerto Rico, Alaska or any of the lower 48 states. I say that due to having received calls and emails from those places because of my posts on the internet over the last 13 years.

    I stated what to my knowledge is still allowable in PA and very possibly in the majority of the US.

    So far we hear from Sammy that it is not allowed in MA, and Valveman says "rigid" so possibly not in TX (PVC is rigid, and above ground). Yet it seems to be allowed in CT (link was provided to the reg). But we haven't seen any proof that says no Fernco or similar fitting in the rest of the coverage areas, just opinions based on what you guys do or don't like about it.

    You don't like a Fernco, don't use one. But I think the poster should be given all the choices and I also believe I and anyone else should be allowed to give our opinion without the personal attacks.

    I've been into water quality very seriously for 22 years and up until 2005 99% of all my business was on private residential wells. Today it is about 50-60%, and I do ten times the business I did as a local water treatment dealer for 18 years. I personally talk to everyone of my customers. So I am not one to do something that impairs someone's water quality.

    I'd like to hear of some factual failures of a Fernco or similar fitting.

    So far I haven't heard of any problems. BTW, my customers should still have my company name and my 800 number that I've had since 1992 and still use today (unless they peeled off my stickers); and IIRC, my first Fernco was installed about the mid 1990s or before.
  18. sammyhydro11

    sammyhydro11 Previous member

    Messages:
    709
    Location:
    Massachusetts
    Gary i could care less about your proof of what state allows what and i'm not going to prove nothing to you because it wouldn't keep you quiet.Your statements on water well regulations goes to show your not really in tune with the water well industry.Your fernco fitting is a horrible idea and i could care less what state allows it. Yeah PVC may be rigid but a fernco is not.

    sammy

    www.tylerwellandpump.com
  19. Gary Slusser

    Gary Slusser That's all folks!

    But Sammy, I care about what you say especially if you can show me (read prove) where I'm wrong, because I don't want to be wrong. Wasn't it you that posted the CT reg. that shows the use of a flexible joint? It doesn't matter who it was, the flex joint is allowed in at least CT but you couldn't care less because you don't like the idea, so don't use one. Weld the extension, which means you have to cut the piece of steel and sell it and then charge more for the labor to do the cutting and welding and then you can't use inexpensive PVC. Which then costs your extension customers more money - then wonder why so many guys want to be DIYers!!

    I care about helping DIYers that post here and frankly I believe you'd rather they not post here and call a local driller or pump guy, as if you can vouch for the guy's character and knowledge and workmanship... many of them are not being "in tune with water well industry" or the water quality industry.

    And I don't want you to keep quite, actually I hope you keep posting.
  20. Waterwelldude

    Waterwelldude Well driller,pump repair. and septic installer

    Messages:
    303
    Location:
    Texas
    I am going to put my 2cents in here. The cheapest and easiest way to fix this is,and its legal.
    Take a piece of 4" well casing,PVC, with the bell end pointed down, set it down over the steel with glue or plumbers putty as a sealer. Cut the
    4' PVC any length you need.
    It is easiest and safest to pull the pump or pipe out first.
    When your done, put it all back the way it was, and your done.
    Oh yea, fill the hole up with dirt.lol Then your done with raising the casing.



    Travis
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