Eljer Pro 1 vs E-Force

Discussion in 'Toilet Forum discussions' started by Macman, Jan 1, 2008.

  1. Macman

    Macman New Member

    Messages:
    102
    New Years greetings everyone! I've been researching toilets and have accumulated a lot of good information, including that which is available here. In that process I've found a lack of good explanation for the difference between the Eljer Titan "Pro 1" and "E-Force" flushing systems. Even the Eljer site doesn't explain the difference. I do know that the Titan 091-0777 (good recommendation here) uses the Pro 1, but there are other Titans with very good reviews that use the E-Force. To my understanding these are both normal gravity feed. Can anyone explain the difference to me, and if you have any knowledge of comparisons, which is "best? " I know that's a relative term. Many thanks.

    Dave

    [​IMG]
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 8, 2008
  2. CarlH

    CarlH New Member

    Messages:
    175
    Location:
    Northern VA
    It looks as though the E-Force lacks a siphon jet. If you look at the Eljer web page for each there is a link on the right for the catalog page. The catalog page gives a bulleted list of "features". Also, there a document for the E-Force:

    Sorry, I saw nothing for the Pro-1 and I have no experience with Eljer.
    Last edited by a moderator: May 31, 2014
  3. Macman

    Macman New Member

    Messages:
    102
    Thanks for the reply. So I assume a siphon jet is a good thing? I'm not positive what a siphon jet does. I'm thinking that it's the trick of forcing water below the tank to "pull" the contents of the tank out?
  4. Eljer quality is going downhill FAST FAST FAST....

    I recently installed 3 Bone Eljer toilets
    for a customer .....Patriots..

    they flush great but

    the quality was poorley lacking ...


    two of them had blemishes in the bowl that
    would appear to be something sitting down in
    bowl... that does not impress people at all.....

    the third bowl was literally about at least a 1/2 inch
    off level and appeared to be leaning way to the left.....


    my guys installed them without me there to inspect
    them and the customer was so pissed off that he
    stopped payment on the check that very day......


    Also note......
    The tank does not bolt down good to the toilet
    you must use an extra set of bolts
    and washers to secure the bolts to the tank before
    setting the tank on the bowl or it will leak in time

    the bolts will work themselves loose and the water will
    start to drip through the washers....
    almost had water damage because of this too
    but it was on the first floor


    anyway, I had to go back that evening
    and fix the leaking toilet with extra nuts and washers
    to hold the bolts solid in place and then I did that
    to the other two of them upstairs just to be sure of no
    future problems



    that was wednesday before x-mas and I told the
    fellow we would worry about this whole matter after the holidays....

    I called my Eljer rep to tell them what poor quality junk
    they are putting out right now too........

    I hope that this fellow will accept the 3 toilets for maybe
    1/3 of the price and Eljer gives me a refund so I dont have
    to do the work twice and waste another day
    fooling with it....

    at this point the guy wants to go buy something
    from the hardware stores and have me take those
    out and warranty some other junk......

    .to save me all the time and aggravation,

    Perhaps I will just give them to him for free
    and then choke the ELJER rep for the money......

    we wait and see...
    Last edited: Jan 1, 2008
  5. Macman

    Macman New Member

    Messages:
    102
    I don't know what a Bone toilet is, but it's an interesting account. I wonder if these quality problems apply to all Eljers, or just to the Patriot line? I'm just gathering information right now, but at a minimum if I would decide to go with an Eljer it looks like I would have to be very careful about what I accept. I know there's a lot of good reports on Toto, but no one sells them in my region and I'm not willing to pay $100 shipping. Thanks for the info, but can you shed any light on my original questions?
  6. e-fprce..

    a bone toilet is meant to mean
    "off white" in color..like biscut....


    The toilet has a full 2 inch trap in it like
    the old ones used to have....


    according to the link that I just read
    they have set up the water jets to swirl in
    such a way to produce superior flushing
    with useing only 1.6 gallons per flush

    But To make this brand of of toilet work best ,
    you either have to hold the handle down though
    the whole flush to keep the flapper from slamming
    down half way through the flush

    or you do like I have had
    to do

    resort to changeing out the
    flappers to common flappers you get
    at any hardware store...to get a fantastic flush

    it really depends on wether you are looking
    for a toilet that will only 1.6 gallons

    or one that roars out and
    flushes out like the old stlye ones used to do..
    Last edited: Jan 1, 2008
  7. Macman

    Macman New Member

    Messages:
    102
    Thank you Mark. From your description it sounds like the tank must contain more than the 1.6 gallons, and that purchasing a different flapper allows the flush to continue as if you held the handle down. An interesting option. I'll continue to look around.
  8. jadnashua

    jadnashua Retired Defense Industry Engineer xxx

    Messages:
    22,313
    Location:
    New England
    I think you are missing the point....the goal of requiring new water saving toilets is to actually save water. If you override their design on a poorly designed toilet, you're lying to yourself and wasting money and resources. Many of the manufacturers still have failed to do the design required to make a toilet work well with the mandated max flow. Those companies with a global reach seem to have a better handle on this (most of the US brands are not sold overseas), because there are a bunch of places where there just isn't a lot of water...the things have to work well.

    While it is definitely best to buy things like toilets locally, I've had good luck buying them on-line. Some places package them better than others, but it is still risky.
  9. Macman

    Macman New Member

    Messages:
    102
    Not really sure if you're referring to me or Mark, Jim, but I do understand the point. Mark was basically telling me that Eljer has issues and that if I was to insist on purchasing one then there were workarounds. One thing that has become apparent to me from my research is that different models can get completely different ratings within the Eljer lineup. For example, there are a lot of Titan toilets but some have so-so performance and others are much better. I noticed that the 091-0777 has received some excellent reviews in a reasonably priced unit, but other very similar looking Titans with the same technology design don't do well. Not sure why. This is the first that I've heard of quality issues, and will take that into consideration.

    On a side note, I just went through an experience in shipping a heavy object that I don't want to repeat. I wanted a safe (125 lbs) that I could not purchase locally. I had read horror stories about damages in shipment on these, but after exhausting all other options I decided to take a chance. Sure enough, when I received it one corner had been bashed in. It's just not worth the hassle to me, and not worth the extra money. I don't know what the normal distribution area is for TOTO, but I'm assuming western U.S. I know they don't get sold by Ohio retailers. Too bad because it sounds like they make a good product.
  10. Macman

    Macman New Member

    Messages:
    102
    Yep, sure did Jim. It came back with "No dealers have been found in your zip area." However, it also says "you may contact our representative serving that region" and gives a number, which I did not do. I'll do that tomorrow and see what they say. If I come up with a dealer within a reasonable distance I'll be back here to talk TOTO with you folks. Thanks.
  11. eljer is sold everywhere

    Eljer is sold everywhere...in the midwest...so it tOTO


    you will be ok with Eljer
    as long as you check out
    the toilet before you take it home
    ...look for defects...


    I never have had a compalint about flushing ....

    home depot and about everyone else is carrying them

    that might be why the quality had gone to hell....

    they sell them to just about anyone ......


    I was disapointed that what I got from a plumbing
    supply house was really no better than what
    you can get at Home Depot...

    If the truth be known...

    its probably made in china now
    by slave labor .. to keep the price down



    I am sort of getting the feeling that
    they dont give a damn about keeping their
    plumbing contractors happpy


    wait and see what happens with my disgruntled
    customer...


    honestly though,
    Ultimately ....
    you are really only takeing a crap here on
    whatever toilet you buy......

    I think you might be over-doing it
    a little with all the technical info you are
    looking into.....

    remember .....its only a toilet.....
    Last edited: Jan 1, 2008
  12. Macman

    Macman New Member

    Messages:
    102
    So if I find a TOTO dealer within a reasonable distance do you have any suggestions or cautions regarding TOTO toilets? I'm not out to buy the cheapest toilet around. Performance is important. But I'm not willing to spend $1000 either. I would hope to find a good unit in the $350 - $400 range. Are there certain models in the TOTO line that are known to be better than others, without getting too carried away price-wise?
  13. achutch

    achutch New Member

    Messages:
    193
    Location:
    Vermont
    Personal experience with TOTO

    Hello Macman,

    I am a consumer and not a professional. I have not seen an Eljer Titan except over the Internet, and my only experience with E-Force has been very limited and has not been subjected to my own "rigorous testing".

    I am a satisfied owner of a TOTO Drake ADA height model which has been in place for over 2 years. During this time, it has never clogged. The quality of both the tank and bowl are first rate with no warpage of the bowl base or tank lid. I have had no mechanical problems with any of the tank parts, nor have I had any leaks.

    The Drake is also within your price range.

    Read Terry's Toilet Report and the user reviews of the Drake. I bought mine based on all of the above and have not been sorry.

    I would recommend the Drake to anybody without hesitation.

    achutch
  14. Macman

    Macman New Member

    Messages:
    102
    Thanks for the info achutch. Your comments are consistent with everything I've read. I called TOTO this mornng and found that the closest retailer to me is about 75 miles away. Not sure if the difference would be worth the trip or not. I would have to borrow a vehicle to do this.
  15. Terry

    Terry Administrator Staff Member

    Messages:
    15,413
    Location:
    Bothell, Washington
    Master Plumber Mark

    It may be only a toilet, but I wouldn't waste my time if the results were so bad myself.

    I like to install em and forget em.

    Kohler Almond, American Standard Bone, Toto Bone

    Kohler Biscuit, American Standard Linen, Toto Sedonia Beige
  16. Macman

    Macman New Member

    Messages:
    102
    Follow-up

    I found a Toto wholesaler in Columbus (90 miles), and by using some family connections was able to purchase a Drake. It will make the trip this weekend. My thanks to those who answered, or attempted to answer my questions.
  17. achutch

    achutch New Member

    Messages:
    193
    Location:
    Vermont
    A Wise Choice!

    Congratulations, Macman by choosing the TOTO Drake.

    The inconvenience of a 90 mile trip and spending some extra money will be worth it in the long run. You will have a toilet that WORKS, and is of high quality. And, if you should ever need them, replacement parts like the red G-Max flapper are readily available.

    You won't be disappointed.

    achutch
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