Electronic pump control

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Bob1000

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I wanted to get rid of the pressure tank , pressure squareD switch and fixed that thing in stead , it was supposed to switch the pump on when you open any water faucet , but it was a complete miss , it does not start immediately and it stays on after I close the tap , plus the pressure differences between on and off is so great which is very annoying when you use water .

Any idea why is that?

The device is called Presscomfort , but an immitation made in china and I can see it on line
 

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Sorry for the delay. I had to look it up. That makes at least 4 different names I have seen that device marketed under. There are also many other devices that are very similar. It has a little tank built in that will hold about a table spoon of water. It has a flow switch and a timer that shuts the pump off after a certain amount of time with no flow. The flow switch will also turn the pump on under some conditions, but usually the pressure has to drop to 27.5 to 37.5 PSI for an internal pressure switch to restart the pump. It has no control over the pressure or flow. You get whatever the pump will deliver, high or low. I see the same device with a new name show up at the trade shows about every 5 years. There are many issues with that type of control as you have seen.

The old pressure tank and pressure switch that you wanted to get rid of is one of the most dependable ways of controlling a pump. The only thing that makes a bladder pressure tank and a pressure switch malfunction is cycling the pump on and off too many times. When you add a Cycle Stop Valve to a regular pressure tank/pressure switch, cycling is STOPPED, which makes for a very dependable pump system.
 

Bob1000

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Sorry for the delay. I had to look it up. That makes at least 4 different names I have seen that device marketed under. There are also many other devices that are very similar. It has a little tank built in that will hold about a table spoon of water. It has a flow switch and a timer that shuts the pump off after a certain amount of time with no flow. The flow switch will also turn the pump on under some conditions, but usually the pressure has to drop to 27.5 to 37.5 PSI for an internal pressure switch to restart the pump. It has no control over the pressure or flow. You get whatever the pump will deliver, high or low. I see the same device with a new name show up at the trade shows about every 5 years. There are many issues with that type of control as you have seen.

The old pressure tank and pressure switch that you wanted to get rid of is one of the most dependable ways of controlling a pump. The only thing that makes a bladder pressure tank and a pressure switch malfunction is cycling the pump on and off too many times. When you add a Cycle Stop Valve to a regular pressure tank/pressure switch, cycling is STOPPED, which makes for a very dependable pump system.



I do understand your point of view and agree with it , but what if I added a small pressure tank to the system , say a 5 liter one just to maintain some pressure in the system to have some reasonable pressure at the moment of opening a tap untill the pump starts ., it is very annoying to open the tap and find very low water pressure for few seconds then the normal reaction to do is to open the tap more trying to have more pressure then suddenly the pump starts and flood you with unexpected pressure and flow. That has been always my problems with my visitors that dont know how my water system works .

Any suggestions that can solve this problem?
 

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Those Masscontrol type devices have no control over the pressure. As soon as the pump is started you have max pump pressure, which I am sure is much higher than pressure from a pressure tank. So when you open a faucet you see a lull in pressure, then suddenly get a big gush.

A pressure-operated device, as with a pressure switch will have an upper and lower limit to the pressure like on at 40 and off at 60 PSI. Then adding a CSV set at 50 PSI makes the pressure steady out at 50 PSI for as long as you are using water.

It is much steadier pressure than on at 27.5 PSI and suddenly running at 70 PSI, which is probably what you are seeing with the device you have.

Now if you really need 70 PSI, you would run a CSV set at 70 PSI, and use a 60/80 pressure switch. Your minimum pressure would be 60 PSI, your running pressure would be 70 PSI, and it would only go to 80 PSI to shut off when no water is being used. We could even tighten up those pressure settings to a 10 PSI differential if you like. But it is rarely needed because 20 PSI difference is not very noticeable, especially since it is just on start up.

It is not a pressure tank that causes the big difference in pressure you are seeing. It is that “tankless” device that is causing your problem.
 

Bob1000

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The point is that I get city water cut offs often and I discovered that this device has dry run protection , in my old system ( tank and pressure switch) I had to fix a water sensor on the supply pipe and connect it with the pressure switch to cut it off in case no water
also another problem often faced me , my pump max pressure curve is less than 50psi and the rest come from the city pressure so when i use the 50/70 setting it works fine as long as there is some boosting city pressure but when it is very low then the pump would not shut off and I faced this situation often ...but with this new device I would not face this problem I think..

So I guess I have to evaluate to cons and pros
 

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I would get a pump that would draw from a storage tank and produce the pressure I wanted. Then use the city supply to fill a 500 gallon or so cistern type storage tank. That way you always have water as long as the city supply comes on occasionally to refill the cistern.

There are lots of ways to protect against dry running. A low level float switch in the cistern tank, a low pressure cut off pressure switch, or my favorite is a Cycle Sensor that looks for low amps.
 

DonL

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If the city does not provide water, Then you may need to find out why.

Sounds like their problem, not yours.

That is the way it works in the U.S.A. But we also have to pay for it.


Good Luck.
 

Bob1000

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If the city does not provide water, Then you may need to find out why.

Sounds like their problem, not yours.

That is the way it works in the U.S.A. But we also have to pay for it.


Good Luck.

The point is that they make repairs on the pipe line without notice , unless you have dry running protection you may lose the pump if you are not at home to switch it off.
I used to have water sensor that is permanently immersed in water and would cut off the pump if there is no water in the line , it was practical and working and cheep
 

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The point is that they make repairs on the pipe line without notice , unless you have dry running protection you may lose the pump if you are not at home to switch it off.
I used to have water sensor that is permanently immersed in water and would cut off the pump if there is no water in the line, it was practical and working and cheep

This is common in many places in the world. That is why I am familiar with the little cistern storage tank systems. In some areas you will see a storage tank on the roof of every house. When the supply is not dependable 24/7, you fill the storage tank with a float valve anytime the supply DOES supply water. Then you use a little booster pump with a regular pressure switch and a CSV, so you can use a very small pressure tank and have constant pressure to the house.



There are several Dry Run relays like the Cycle Sensor that can be attached to the incoming electric to the pressure switch to shut the pump off on low amperage if the pump runs dry. See this link.
http://cyclestopvalves.com/prod_sensor.html
 
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