Egads - Leaky Toilet!

Users who are viewing this thread

StrawberryBlonde

Web and graphics designer.
Messages
22
Reaction score
0
Points
0
Location
Back of Beyond, Idaho
Ok, I'll try to keep this short and simple.

I needed to replace a 1976 brilliantly blue toilet in my guest bathroom last week.
It had a cracked tank, but other than that, no noticeable problems.

I headed to my only local plumbing/hardware store (American Standard) and purchased the least expensive model, since my plans are to gut this lovely blue bathroom and redo the whole thing in 6 months.

Welp, I got my $150.00 toilet home, along with new flange bolts and a super duper wax ring and completed the job in record time (minus the gagging because the toilet had been sitting unused and gathering mold for 18 months whilst the house was on the market).

All looked fine that night and I headed off to bed happy. Next morning I noticed a leak around the tank at the floor. Time to redo the ring, right?

Bought a new ring, carefully scraped off the old one, checked the flange for cracks, etc.

Everything looked fine, no rocking toidy, nothing.

Installed the new ring on the tank, plopped the toidy carefully onto the bolts, tightened it down and voila...no leaks.

Next morning....leaking again.

Pulled the bowl yet again and noticed that the plastic ring that comes with the wax ring was crimped as if I hadn't seated it properly. Soooo, I assumed that it was user error (cuz I admit that I'm new at this...even if it does seem pretty simple and straightforward to replace a wax ring!).

Off to the store to buy my third wax ring. Scraped old wax, double checked the flange for cracks, checked the height of the flange, did everything by the book.

No wobbles, no wiggles, sat on the toidy (with pants on of course) to be sure the ring squished nicely and that the toilet made contact with the floor before I tightened the bolts. It all looked hunky dory to me.

Sure enough, woke up this morning and the danged thing is leaking again!

It seems to take about 8 hours for the leaking to start, and it's a slow leak...not a flood.

So what could I be doing wrong? What have I missed? I hate to have to call a plumber for this. Dang it, I might be "just a girl" but I'm a whiz at doing my own home projects and I hate to be beaten by a danged crapper!

Could it possibly be a faulty toilet? If so, where would I look for defects?

Any help or ideas will be gratefully accepted. :D

Strawberry
 

Ian Gills

Senior Robin Hood Guy
Messages
2,743
Reaction score
3
Points
0
Location
USA
The first things to check are things other than the wax ring. That should only leak when you flush because the rest of the time the water sits in the porcelain trap (unless you have a leak there which is unlikely....is the water level in the bottom of the toilet falling if you leave it unflushed? You could put some color in to test that will not stain the toilet or the floor).

It could be leaking from a number of other areas as well.

More likely would be:

- The gasket that joins the tank to the base and the nuts that hold the tank on. Check with your finger and a torch for dampness.

- Then what about the angle stop and the supply hose that connects it to the toilet. Are all of these on nice and snug without any leaks? Get a torch and check.

- Finally, there is always the curve ball option. Is your tank sweating? Is there water from the air condensing on your tank which is falling on to the floor? Is your tank wet to the touch with condensation? This might indicate that the flapper is not seating properly, because of a misadjusted chain for example, or the fill valve is not shutting off, possibly because it is not adjusted to the right fill height and water is running down the overflow tube. It might even indicate no problem at all....you may have just taken a hot shower for instance or it might be a hot, humid night. My Cadet 3 would set off a flood alarm after a hot shower or a humid night because of this very reason. So I removed the flood alarm.

It could be anything but it is not the wax ring because then it would leak only when flushed.

Congratulations on buying an American Standard. Is it a Cadet 3?
 
Last edited:

Jadnashua

Retired Defense Industry Engineer xxx
Messages
32,771
Reaction score
1,191
Points
113
Location
New England
A couple of things...the plastic horn in the wax ring is more trouble than it's worth and could be the cause of any leaks during flushing especially if the pipe is 3". Now, if you've never flushed the thing, it could be several things - leaks past the bolts holding the tank in place, leaks around the flapper seat, a leaky filler valve, the supply hose, or possibly condensation, if it is running intermittently.

It could also have a defect in the trapway or somewhere else in the bowl. AS has been known to produce some dogs.

I'd consider buying a toilet you want to keep instead of throwing away $150, even if it didn't match things well (sounds like you aren't using it much anyways).
 

StrawberryBlonde

Web and graphics designer.
Messages
22
Reaction score
0
Points
0
Location
Back of Beyond, Idaho
Thanks for the quick answers!

Let's see, I'll try to respond to all the other possible problems...hope I can remember them all. =)

The water supply line is fine, no leaking at all. No condensation on the tank either. Checked the tank bolts several times...they are dry and not leaking.

It's good to know that the wax ring would only leak during flushing...and since I haven't flushed it or used it yet, I guess it's not the seal that's the problem, huh?

So what other possiblities are there?

I'm starting to think it's a defect in the toilet somewhere since I know the flange is fine and dandy...good lord, I've checked and rechecked that thing. LOL

As far as buying another brand of toilet goes...can't do that till I've decided on the overall design and esthetics for this bathroom since I live in the boonies and there is only one local place for new toilets. Uh huh, it's actually called American Standard Plumbing and Supplies. <sigh>

I really did just want a simple white toilet for guests to use for the next few months. I've already hidden the brilliant blue tub and shower tiles with a beige cloth shower curtain, so other than the blue marbled countertop, the bathroom "almost" looks normal.

Argggghhhh, why o why can't it be easy? :rolleyes:
 

Eudmin

New Member
Messages
24
Reaction score
0
Points
0
Location
District of Columbia
You say the tank bolts are dry. Otherwise maybe you tightened them too hard and gave yourself a hairline crack in the tank. I did that before. But the leaks can be weird. My bolts were dry when I had the hairline crack in the tank. The water came out kind of along the tank and ran down the back of the bowl onto the floor it didn't drip off the bolts like I would have expected.

I discovered it by taping a piece of paper grocery bag to the tank in the back and found the wet spot at the very end of the hairline crack on the outside of the porcelain glaze. The inside and the outside parts of the crack didn't really line up where I would have expected once I started examining them closely.
 

Ian Gills

Senior Robin Hood Guy
Messages
2,743
Reaction score
3
Points
0
Location
USA
Put some color in the water that sits in the base of your toilet (not the tank) and wait. If colored water comes out, you know it is not a tank leak or sweating and vice versa.

Or turn off the supply, empty the tank and let it sit there with water in the base. If the leak continues, it must be from the base and vice versa from the tank/sweating.

I still think it is sweating when you are not looking. How much water are we talking here?
 
Last edited:

StrawberryBlonde

Web and graphics designer.
Messages
22
Reaction score
0
Points
0
Location
Back of Beyond, Idaho
Put some color in the water that sits in the base of your toilet (not the tank) and wait. If colored water comes out, you know it is not a tank leak or sweating and vice versa.

Or turn off the supply, empty the tank and let it sit there with water in the base. If the leak continues, it must be from the base and vice versa from the tank/sweating.

I still think it is sweating when you are not looking. How much water are we talking here?

Hmmm, how much water...good question!

There is pooled water 1/2" wide around the lefthand side of the base and it's about 1/3" wide at the back of the base.

It isn't enough to cause a huge puddle or for water to go running all over the floor. That amount has accumulated over the last 12 hours or so.

I just rechecked the tank carefully, using the paper bag technique and so far it's still dry across the entire bottom of the tank.

I'll go try emptying the tank and turning off the water supply to see if the leak persists. That's a great idea btw!

Soggily signing off,
Strawberry
 

Eudmin

New Member
Messages
24
Reaction score
0
Points
0
Location
District of Columbia
Haha, leave them both filled, put yellow food coloring in the tank, blue in the bowl, and let it sit.

If it's leaking from the bowl, you get blue on the floor, from the tank you get yellow on the floor, from both you get green on the floor.
 

StrawberryBlonde

Web and graphics designer.
Messages
22
Reaction score
0
Points
0
Location
Back of Beyond, Idaho
Haha, leave them both filled, put yellow food coloring in the tank, blue in the bowl, and let it sit.

If it's leaking from the bowl, you get blue on the floor, from the tank you get yellow on the floor, from both you get green on the floor.

ROFLMBO! I love that idea! Can I use Red and Yellow though? I have this thing about blue lately....don't know why, other than the fact that this bathroom is a HUGE explosion of blue everywhere.

I wanna know who thought up this color in the 70's. Really ,where is that guy? I needa go have a LONG talk with him! LOL

Strawberry
 

StrawberryBlonde

Web and graphics designer.
Messages
22
Reaction score
0
Points
0
Location
Back of Beyond, Idaho
you sure someone doesn't just walk in their sleep and have poor aim?

Welp, there's only one person in this house who could possibly have bad aim, and trust me, that guy is too lazy to walk clear down the hall to the guest bathroom when the master bath is just 20 steps away. :D

So the food color is in the toidy and I'm waiting to see the results. And blast it, so far it's not leaking....grrrrrr.

SB
 

Gary Swart

In the Trades
Messages
8,101
Reaction score
84
Points
48
Location
Yakima, WA
It is very possible the problem is with the American Standard toilet. First of all, AS has a very, very poor record for quality control and secondly, you bought a very cheap model. Certainly just spending more doesn't insure you necessarily get more, but usually the cheap models are what are termed "builder models." They are what builder put in spec houses because they are strictly buying for cheap. Time was AS, Kohler, and a few other famous names were a sign of quality, but not so today. The professional plumbers that reside on this forum will not supply AS toilets because they so frequently turn out to be junk which wastes their time and money returning the defective unit, getting another, returning to the job and perhaps finding they have yet another lemon. It would be my sincere advice to return your bargain toilet, find a Toto dealer, get a Toto Drake, and live happily ever after. Yes, you'll pay a lot more, but you'll have a toilet that is virtually impossible to clog and will perform as a toilet should. Good luck.
 

StrawberryBlonde

Web and graphics designer.
Messages
22
Reaction score
0
Points
0
Location
Back of Beyond, Idaho
Welp, I have my answer..it's definitely the tank or something connected to the tank...LOL

I checked my blue bowl water after an hour and found just clear water on the floor. So I mopped that up carefully, shut off the water supply, drained the tank, sponged it dry and waited another hour.

Sure enough, the floor was still dry after an hour, and now after 2 hours.

EEESHHH! I guess this means taking the unit back to my local store, and then driving to the city to find someone who deals in anything other than AS and Kohler.

Oh well, at least now I know that I'm not a total idiot and did manage to seal the thing correctly, huh? :)

The only thing that I still don't understand is how and why the tank is causing water to seap out from UNDER the bowl. That seems very weird. I could understand it pooling behind the bowl, or even around the back edges, but on the sides too?

Thanks for all your help today guys. Hubby ain't gonna be happy when he gets home tonight and finds out that the toilet still isn't usable, but oh well...that's life. At least it isn't blue anymore! LOL

Strawberry
 

Terry

The Plumbing Wizard
Staff member
Messages
29,946
Reaction score
3,460
Points
113
Location
Bothell, Washington
Website
terrylove.com
Just have Ian come out and replace the bowl.
Defects shouldn't bother you. The next one might work.

That is, unless you value your time.
 

Wrex

Member
Messages
126
Reaction score
0
Points
16
Location
New Jersey
Maybe the wax ring is barely reaching and not making a good seal?

In my bathroom I had to put 2 rings on top of each other to get a good seal.

Its an old bathroom with a mortar bed floor that is sinking so thats why I had this issue the bed itself doesn't even rest on the studs which have their faces cut at 45 degree angles.

Oh boy won't that be fun to remove when I do the remodel later this year.

I guess I'm going to give my sledgehammer a good workout :rolleyes:.

In any case if you still have leaking problems with the new toilet check to make sure that the wax ring is making full contact with both the flange and the toilet.

The wax ring is supposed to be partially crushed to make a good seal if the ring looks out of the box perfect you will need another ring on top of it.
 
Last edited:

StrawberryBlonde

Web and graphics designer.
Messages
22
Reaction score
0
Points
0
Location
Back of Beyond, Idaho
Just have Ian come out and replace the bowl.
Defects shouldn't bother you. The next one might work.

That is, unless you value your time.

ROFL...I'm not sure if I've just been insulted, or if Ian has!

I've made up my mind to head to the city to find a toilet dealer whose sign doesn't say "American Standard Plumbing and Supplies".

I just wish that I'd found this forum before I'd bought the AS toidy. I had no idea that the quality had gone downhill. Always remembered them being sturdy and trustworthy. Heck, my master bath has an AS Cadet in it and it's working just dandy.

Oh and to whomever first asked me if this one is a Cadet 3...it is indeed! =)

It's real purdy too!

It just has a problem keeping the water INSIDE the toilet and tank where it belongs.

Hey Ian, wanna come install my next toilet? :D

Strawberry
 

Ian Gills

Senior Robin Hood Guy
Messages
2,743
Reaction score
3
Points
0
Location
USA
I would love to fit it. there is still not quite enough evidence that it is a fault with the toilet. it might just be a bad gasket or the tank may have not been tightened down enough.
 

Terry

The Plumbing Wizard
Staff member
Messages
29,946
Reaction score
3,460
Points
113
Location
Bothell, Washington
Website
terrylove.com
No insult intended.

It could be that two wax rings were needed in the install, if the flange was lower than the finished floor, or it could be a defect.

I've seen plenty of A/S defects in my line of work.
It makes you a bit cynical.

I just mention Ian, because even though it took him two trips to the hardware store to get a working bowl and tank, that part didn't seem to bother him. And then when the flapper went South, that didn't bother him either. I will say this for him, I wish he was a customer of mine.
I like to see customers that let the bad stuff just slide off.
From a contractor point of view, it seem easier to just provide something that I'm more confident in. For me, or for anyone that pays people to run around with gas hog vans that use $4.50 gallon gas, I like to make just one trip. One little delay with a defect, and I'm working for free.

If the tank is leaking, you may want to pull the flush valve, sand the inside of the tank, and reinstall.
Sometimes it makes more sense to just do a "job fix" on it.
 
Last edited:

StrawberryBlonde

Web and graphics designer.
Messages
22
Reaction score
0
Points
0
Location
Back of Beyond, Idaho
Awwww, I was just teasing ya Terry, I didn't read any insult into what you said. I tend to forget that people can't see me grinning and giggling when I type stuff in forums.

I have that same mentality when it comes to problems with something I'm installing. I do NOT want to go get in the truck and spend an hour driving around town, paying exhorbitant prices for parts, only to come back home and then start all over again...and again. Drives me nuts!

My husband is more like you Ian. He doesn't appreciate going back and forth for replacement parts or to return defective materials, but he also doesn't get all antsy like I do. Bless his heart...he's a very patient man. Poor guy woke up to a dead coffee maker this morning...walked into the bedroom, tossed on a pair of shorts and a hat and drove his sleepy self to Wally World to buy a new one before I even had time to register that the darned thing was broken. Is that not an amazing man? :)

If you're truly thinking that it might be the tank bolts or the gasket I'll go give it a shot at reseating it and tightening it one more time. Maybe I'll get lucky, huh?

Off to play with the tank for an hour,
SB
 

Wrex

Member
Messages
126
Reaction score
0
Points
16
Location
New Jersey
Don't overtighten the flange bolts or you will have another problem ;).

As I said a few posts above sometimes 2 rings are needed.

A good way to check is to place a level across the drain flange in a perfect world it should be level with the rest of the floor.

If its not level measure from the edge of the flange to the bottom of the level.

That measurement is how low the flange is below the surface of the floor.
 
Last edited:
Top
Hey, wait a minute.

This is awkward, but...

It looks like you're using an ad blocker. We get it, but (1) terrylove.com can't live without ads, and (2) ad blockers can cause issues with videos and comments. If you'd like to support the site, please allow ads.

If any particular ad is your REASON for blocking ads, please let us know. We might be able to do something about it. Thanks.
I've Disabled AdBlock    No Thanks