DWV Questions for Bathroom Remodel

Discussion in 'Plumbing Forum, Professional & DIY Advice' started by Bob V., Oct 13, 2007.

  1. Bob V.

    Bob V. New Member

    Messages:
    9
    Location:
    Pleasant Prairie,WI
    First time posting here at this forum, but have been lurking for awhile. I'm in the middle of a bathroom remodel, and have come to the point for rough in of DWV. My question is in regards to moving a toilet and whether it will need venting, and venting/connecting the shower drain to the stack. The bathroom is on the main floor of a ranch, which has a basement. So I have full access to the stack both above and below the bathroom.

    The toilet will be moved 42" to the right from its previous location, which is 30" to the right of the stack/vent. Due to this increased distance from the toilet flange to the stack, I'm wondering if the horizontal run needs to be vented? I've never seen a toilet drain vented, but was wondering if this was needed... I know that I need to keep the pitch in mind from the drain elbow to the stack. I plan on rebuilding the stack from where it come out of the basement floor to the vent in the attic, so I could put in a couple 45s to move the stack closer to the toilet. There happens to be a supporting beam between the stack and the toilet new location. So I have a few obstacles to avoid.

    My other question is about the shower drain/venting. I think I'm pretty sure how to handle this, but am looking for confirmation. The shower drain is approx 4 ft. from the stack/vent. I'm planning on wying into the 2" drain right after the p trap, (does it matter how far downstream from the p trap) and route that to the stack upstairs for venting at a level above the sinks on the main floor. But I'm not sure if it matters which drain connects to the stack first, meaning top to bottom. Does the toilet wye into the stack and then the drains from the shower and sinks? Or the other way around?

    Any comments/suggestions would be great. If photo are needed to understand my questions, let me know..
  2. patrick88

    patrick88 Plumber

    Messages:
    836
    Location:
    Webster Ma.
    I would post a pic. you seem to be on the right track. It sounds like your new shower is close enough to the stack for my state but with other fixtures connected you might need to vent things.
  3. hj

    hj Moderator & Master Plumber Staff Member

    Messages:
    27,267
    Location:
    Cave Creek, Arizona
    drain

    The way the downstairs drainage and venting relate to the upstairs will be a factor in what has to be vented, and how it needs to be done
  4. Bob V.

    Bob V. New Member

    Messages:
    9
    Location:
    Pleasant Prairie,WI
    Please take alook at the attachment for something I drew that resembles what I have planned. I'm questioning the need for a vent in the 4 ft horizontal shower drain run to the stack. If it is needed, where should it be located, right after the P-Trap, or anywhere between the trap and stack?

    Also. I'm not sure if it matters which drain connects to the stack first, meaning top to bottom. Does the toilet wye into the stack and then the drains from the shower and sinks? Or the other way around? Plus, does a toilet run ever need to be vented?

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  5. Bob V.

    Bob V. New Member

    Messages:
    9
    Location:
    Pleasant Prairie,WI
    I have another question about whether to use a 4X3 or 3x3 closet elbow, or a sweeping elbow for the toilet drain? Which provides the proper drainage?

    Also, any comments on my drawing in the previous post would be great.
  6. hj

    hj Moderator & Master Plumber Staff Member

    Messages:
    27,267
    Location:
    Cave Creek, Arizona
    drain

    If you do it exactly the way you have it drawn, you will have a hodgepodge which would be unlike anything a plumber would install. Doing it that way definitely needs the vent on the shower regardless of how close it is to the main connection. Its vent only has to be 1 1/2", however. I ALWAYS use a 4x3 closet bend elbow for the toilet.
  7. Bob V.

    Bob V. New Member

    Messages:
    9
    Location:
    Pleasant Prairie,WI
    hj- How about this second attempt?

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  8. hj

    hj Moderator & Master Plumber Staff Member

    Messages:
    27,267
    Location:
    Cave Creek, Arizona
    drain

    It is better, but it still seems to have a lot more fittings than necessary, but without seeing the actual physical location, that is just an assumption.
  9. patrick88

    patrick88 Plumber

    Messages:
    836
    Location:
    Webster Ma.
    Why not just run 3" into the attic for the vent? Why not just do a 3"X3" double wye for the toilet line and shower line. keeping the connection for the lav as is.
  10. Bob V.

    Bob V. New Member

    Messages:
    9
    Location:
    Pleasant Prairie,WI
    patrick88- The 2" vent line is pre-exisiting and already routed from attic to basement. I'd like to not have to change that if possible. I like your idea of a double wye, but due to framing, is would be more difficult. How about my latest idea. A double 2X2 santee for the shower and lav, and a 3 santee for the toilet. It is similar to my original drawing, but with less fittings.

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  11. Bob V.

    Bob V. New Member

    Messages:
    9
    Location:
    Pleasant Prairie,WI
    OK- Enough of the 2D drawings! Please look at the 4 sketches and help me decide which way to go. I'm probably over analazing this anyway. Each example seems to have it's pros and cons, especially when working around the framing. I think #1 probably has an issue with the horizintal 2x2x2 santee from the shower. Can it be done that way? I've made enough trips for PVC fittings for this job 3 times over. Time to get something accomplished, but I also want it to be done right.

    Thanks for all the help so far...

    Attached Files:

  12. combine #3 and #4 to get the shower line straight, and to use a SanTee for the WC. The Double SanTee or the Cross SanTee is OK, debatable, not prohibited. They make them with 90 degree angles too, so you don't have to use the 180 degree cross as that forces your shower line to bend 90 degrees unecessarily.

    Both #2 and #3 use a Wye for the WC and that is no good. Don't do that.

    And #1 lays a santee flat, sideways, horizontally, and that is no good. Don't do that.

    Let Master Plumbers comment more.

    david
  13. Bob V.

    Bob V. New Member

    Messages:
    9
    Location:
    Pleasant Prairie,WI
    geniescience- Maybe my drawings are misleading, but in sketches 1,2 & 3 the wc is run to the top of the 3x2x3 SanTee via a 3" 90 Street Elbow. The 2 inch wye leg is used for the both the lav and shower after they combine via the different versions of SanTees.

    I thought sketch #1 was not right due to the 2" SanTee on it's side. Thanks for the confirmation. For future reference, can a Wye be used on it's side? Also, I apprecieate the recommendation for the 90 degree Double SanTee or the Cross SanTee to eliminate the need for the at least one 90. I have not seen those at the home center. Any idea where I could find a fitting like that?

    Thanks again for the help!
  14. no, that is a Wye (that you labelled as a Wye), and prior to the Wye is a bend ,not a SanTee. Bend, or elbow. Quarter bend, quarter of a circle, meaning 90 degrees.

    Where to get the cute double SanTees? Someone will post a link to a Watts catalog or something, and a thread from 2 to 3 months ago had pictures and links to this. Keep searching.

    David
  15. Bob V.

    Bob V. New Member

    Messages:
    9
    Location:
    Pleasant Prairie,WI
    David- You are correct, I stand corrected. My humble apologies. You'd think a guy could keep his own drawings straight. What I had intended to say is that in drawings 1, 2, & 3 that the WC is run to the top of the 3x3x2 Wye via a 3" 90 Street Elbow. The 2 inch wye leg is used for the both the lav and shower after they combine via the 2x2x2 SanTees. Sorry again for the confusion.
    Since your previous response I have attempted to find a 90 degree 3x3x2x2 Double SanTee or a 90 degree 2x2x2x2 Double SanTee, but without any luck. I'm not sure that they even exists. I have found two versions of a 90 degree 3x3x3x2 that I could use with a reducer on the 3" hub. I guess I'll make some calls tomorrow..
  16. i think it is called a right angle cross instead of a straight cross. I'm not in the business of memorizing terminology for parts i never buy. :)

    and yes, you can lay a Wye flat. But you don't need that here. And you can't connect the two lines with a Wye before a single SanTee here.

    david
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