Drake or Drake II (has anyone successfully removed hard water stains from Sanagloss?)

Discussion in 'Toilet Forum discussions' started by SAS, Mar 10, 2014.

  1. SAS

    SAS Member

    Messages:
    113
    Location:
    Connecticut
    In our former house I replaced 3 old American Standard toilets with Drake toilets, two ADA height and one standard. We were extremely pleased with their performance. We've just moved and I've replaced flappers and fill valves in 2 toilets, 1 seems to be OK, and 1 has an odd problem that may be causing flushing issues. If it is left for a while, the water level in the bowl drops. I'm not sure if that's what causes the flushing problem, but unless someone has a great idea about how to fix it, I've decided to replace it.

    My only complaint with the Drakes is that the wash down is not great - not terrible but not great. The Drake II seems as if it might be better in that department, but I'm not so sure about Sanagloss. We have hard enough water that I expect to have to deal with a ring at the water line. On the old Drakes I'd just go at it with a pumice stone for a couple of minutes every few months and it looked like new. I've seen lots of threads about cleaning Sanagloss, and I know that the pumice stone isn't an option. As I said in the Title - has anyone successfully removed hard water stains from Sanagloss? If so, I'd go with the Drake II, otherwise I think I'll play it safe and go with the Drake without the Sanagloss finish.
  2. tso1ab

    tso1ab New Member

    Messages:
    10
    Location:
    GA
    I have the same issue (rust stains on three Sanagloss Drakes). I see toilets in public restrooms that look “cleaner†than my Drakes. So what’s the answer, replace with non Sanagloss units?
  3. Terry

    Terry Administrator Staff Member

    Messages:
    15,053
    Location:
    Bothell, Washington
    I had a customer in Issaquah with hard water that replaced his non-sanagloss with sanagloss.
    He was an airline pilot, and being gone for long periods of time, he was able to see quite a difference.

    One issue with any bowl, is the amount of water in the bowl, compared to pre 1990, when you had a large pool of water in the bowl. There is less water now, and evaporation is an issue.

    I use a liquid toilet bowl cleaner on mine, and a bristol brush.
    I would guess that commerical bathrooms get regular cleaning.
  4. Reach4

    Reach4 Active Member

    Messages:
    2,303
    Location:
    IL
    Tso1ab, your situation is not the same or even very similar, The good answer for you is to get rid of the iron in the water. If your iron levels are small enough, a water softener can remove iron.

    To clean off iron, try Super Iron Out. It is widely available. But consider a water softener to help this and other things.

    For hard water deposits in a bowl, I like phosphoric acid, which is easy enough to find once you know how. I think it was the main active ingredient in Lime A Way before they tamed down their formula. 2006 MDS: http://www.holidaywholesale.com/MSDS_ECOLAB/Eco_72046Limeaway.pdf
  5. jadnashua

    jadnashua Retired Defense Industry Engineer xxx

    Messages:
    22,058
    Location:
    New England
    Toto doesn't want any harsh chemicals used on Sanagloss. YOu may want to call them and ask specifically what could safely be used to clean a toilet with that finish. FWIW, Many of the toilet manufacturers offer similar premium glazes, so the problem is not unique to Toto. Sanagloss, like any glaze, can be marred by harsh chemicals or abrasive cleaners...it's just that for the Sanagloss to do its thing, it starts out much smoother than a conventional glaze and this is why it tends to clean easier. Use some acid on it, and you may end up microscopically etching it and remove all the benefits of that glaze, converting it to a conventional one.
  6. SAS

    SAS Member

    Messages:
    113
    Location:
    Connecticut
    I took your advice and called Toto. The rep in technical support told me that chemicals would not harm Sanagloss, specifically he mentioned CLR as a good choice to remove hard water stains from Sanagloss. Now the only issue is price. I can get a standard height, regular bowl Drake 1.6 gpf for $180. The Drake II is $312. I've got to think about that.
  7. jadnashua

    jadnashua Retired Defense Industry Engineer xxx

    Messages:
    22,058
    Location:
    New England
    Does the Drake II come with a seat standard (I do not know)? The original Drake did not, could have changed. THe seat costs $40-50 or so (but other brands will fit if you prefer). That may account for some of the difference, and Sanagloss adds a bit too, the original Drake does not come standard with it.
  8. wjcandee

    wjcandee Wise One

    Messages:
    1,867
    Location:
    New York, NY
    No, the Drake II comes without a seat. Generally-speaking, the CST (two-piece) toilets come with out a seat. The MS toilets (one-piece) come with a seat, and the seat model is included in the toilet model number. E.g. MS604114CEFG is the Ultramax II one-piece, which has the 604 toilet and SS114 seat.

    The Drake II is more expensive than the round original Drake because it is: elongated, uses double-cyclone, is universal height, and has sanagloss standard. That accounts for the extra $100.
  9. SAS

    SAS Member

    Messages:
    113
    Location:
    Connecticut
    The $180 was for a Drake with elongated bowl so it's really $130 for all of the other items you list. For us, the only one we really care about is the advanced flush, i.e. double-cyclone. I like the idea and the likelihood that it will do a better job of cleaning the bowl, but I'm really tempted by such a low price for a toilet that has worked well for us for many years. But it's good to have two good choices.
  10. wjcandee

    wjcandee Wise One

    Messages:
    1,867
    Location:
    New York, NY
    Agreed.

    We have two original Drakes. They work great. We also have a double-cyclone toilet. It works great. We like it. But I wouldn't pay $100 more just for the difference in type of flush. Those other features that we wanted, plus we wanted something a little swankier for the master bath, are what made it worthwhile.

    That $180 for the Original Drake, if its the CST744S or CST744E (i.e. the elongated), is a steal.
  11. SAS

    SAS Member

    Messages:
    113
    Location:
    Connecticut
    Thanks for the opinion. It seems to me like a great price also. I paid considerably more for the 3 I bought at least 5 years ago. I'm also lucky because at that price it's only available in white, and this time I need white!
  12. Wallijonn

    Wallijonn Member

    Messages:
    147
    Location:
    Arizona
    NYC doesn't have hard water. On most toilets hard water will clog up all the little drain holes. So the two cyclone outlets would seem to be a better choice as it will take a lot longer time to clog. That's one of the reasons I rationalise going with a 1.6gpf instead of a 1.28gpf, because as the drain holes clog there is less water to flush waste.

    Me, I'd probably turn off the water valve, flush, plug up the two cyclone outlets, fill the tank up with a gallon of vinegar, flush, let it stand overnight, turn on the water valve, let it fill up, remove the plugs and flush all the lime away. Idk if the vinegar would attack the Sanagloss, though (are the cyclone outlets Sanaglossed all the way to the flush valve?).
    Last edited: Mar 23, 2014
  13. jadnashua

    jadnashua Retired Defense Industry Engineer xxx

    Messages:
    22,058
    Location:
    New England
    Most toilets, and Toto is in this as far as I can tell, generally only glaze the visible parts. The trapway may have a coat, but one interesting thing on Totos, they intentionally want it slightly rough. This helps prevent paper from sticking...as the small rough spots allow water to flow under it, otherwise, it might be sort of like putting up wallpaper...it would stick.
  14. Wallijonn

    Wallijonn Member

    Messages:
    147
    Location:
    Arizona
    Also, never use chlorine bleach in the bowl or in the tank.

    Those are great prices. For me the lowest local price I could find on the Drake ADA Elongated was $250. One plumbing house wanted $400. Last year I was was looking at an Internet price $350 Toto; one local plumbing house wanted $800... Now I'm thinking of getting rid of the other 3.5g Briggs and installing a Drake Round Normal Height. Price? $250.
  15. Reach4

    Reach4 Active Member

    Messages:
    2,303
    Location:
    IL
    What is your objection to using chlorine bleach in the bowl?
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