Drake II still running a few seconds an hour

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forter_morker

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Terry/All,

Couldn't find this answer with forum search, apologize if it is a duplicate.

I have one bathroom where the old American Standard just kept running a few seconds an hour. Replaced valve, then on Home Depot advice replaced flapper. Still had problem.

SO Replaced toilet with Toto Drake II - worked fine for a few months, now running a few seconds an hour just like before with American Standard. Tube is over the pipe, not in it. Parts should be fine as they are less than a year old.

My other Drake IIs work fine and do not run. What is it about this bathroom that is causing toilets to run?

Thanks

Dallas, TX
 

Reach4

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How far below the top of the overflow does the water in the tank rise to after a flush?

If you shut off the water at the stop valve, what happens?
 

forter_morker

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How far below the top of the overflow does the water in the tank rise to after a flush?

If you shut off the water at the stop valve, what happens?

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Water rises to and rests 1 1/4 " below the tube top.
I did just witness the noise, it is the green valve float thing moving a bit (saw a few bubbles) and then it drops a few drops of water into the tube from the hose, then stops.

If I shut off water at wall, noise does not happen.

ALSO, if I turn the water at the wall back on (quarter turn instead of full open), the toilet fills with a horrible pipe vibrating in the wall (with bubbles coming from bottom of green valve thing). Turning the shower on next to the toilet eliminates the horrible noise and vibration in the wall.

Thanks Dallas
 

WJcandee

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Do me a favor. (This is what Reach was asking.) Mark the level in the tank with a pencil. Turn off the water at the wall overnight. Tell me how much if any the tank level dropped from your mark by the morning. Most likely, this is a flapper that isn't seating properly, new toilet or not, and the water is very slowly draining from the tank which is causing the valve to refill the tank a smidge. It isn't the bathroom.

To avoid that noise, be sure you open the valve at the wall all the way, which is what it always is supposed to be. That noise is cavitation/water hammer and it is the result of fluid dynamics that we won't get into. Just open the thing all the way.

Also, an inch-and-a-quarter seems like a lot of distance below the top of the overflow riser for the water to be stopping; usually in Totos it's about 1/4" or a little more. However, if it's flushing properly and refilling the bowl sufficiently, then it is what it is.

Jim makes some excellent points below about things that may cause some occasional leakage past the flapper or through the fill valve. If the latter, however, I would think that your water level in the tank would slowly be pushing higher. Lets start with whether it drops overnight with the water at the wall off.
 
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Jadnashua

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Some people like to put cleaning tabs IN the tank...that is a sure way to destroy the rubber components quickly! The only ones that work are those in the bowl, or one that fits between the filler valve and the overflow tube so that no chlorine ends up sitting in the tank for many hours on end. If you DO use something like that, stop.

The other thing that may be an issue is if your water pressure in the house is excessive. Code requires anything over 80psi to be reduced to at most that value.

The new toilet should have come with the flapper chain length properly adjusted, but there should be a little slack in it, and not too much such that it either doesn't flush right, or the excess can hang down and sometimes get caught underneath the flapper valve.

Last (I can think of now) is, if you have a closed system and you do not have an expansion tank, or that tank is shot, the pressure can rise after using some hot as the incoming cold water gets heated, it expands and must go somewhere. Often, the weakest link is the toilet fill valve.
 

forter_morker

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Do me a favor. (This is what Reach was asking.) Mark the level in the tank with a pencil. Turn off the water at the wall overnight. Tell me how much if any the tank level dropped from your mark by the morning. Most likely, this is a flapper that isn't seating properly, new toilet or not, and the water is very slowly draining from the tank which is causing the valve to refill the tank a smidge. It isn't the bathroom.

To avoid that noise, be sure you open the valve at the wall all the way, which is what it always is supposed to be. That noise is cavitation/water hammer and it is the result of fluid dynamics that we won't get into. Just open the thing all the way.

Also, an inch-and-a-quarter seems like a lot of distance below the top of the overflow riser for the water to be stopping; usually in Totos it's about 1/4" or a little more. However, if it's flushing properly and refilling the bowl sufficiently, then it is what it is.

Jim makes some excellent points below about things that may cause some occasional leakage past the flapper or through the fill valve. If the latter, however, I would think that your water level in the tank would slowly be pushing higher. Lets start with whether it drops overnight with the water at the wall off.

-------
Thanks. The level dropped slightly over 1/2" down from the pencil line overnight. If it is a flapper, do I have to order from Toto, or is there a Lowes/Home Depot part I can use. Thanks!
Dallas
 

Reach4

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You can get a flapper locally. Wipe the seat to be sure there is no debris, and feel for any imperfection in the seat. http://m.korky.com/results3.php?action=byBrand&brand=14&model=Drake II&age=0&product=0&style=0 shows two flappers for the Toto Drake II. If you put the model number into their finder, it should narrow it to one.

Rare, but the problem could be a crack in the overflow pipe. There could be a flaw in the valve seat. But starting with a new better flapper is best and most probable cure.

I was a bit surprised that your water level only came up to about 1.5 inches below the overflow. Higher is more typical.
 

forter_morker

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You can get a flapper locally. Wipe the seat to be sure there is no debris, and feel for any imperfection in the seat. http://m.korky.com/results3.php?action=byBrand&brand=14&model=Drake II&age=0&product=0&style=0 shows two flappers for the Toto Drake II. If you put the model number into their finder, it should narrow it to one.

Rare, but the problem could be a crack in the overflow pipe. There could be a flaw in the valve seat. But starting with a new better flapper is best and most probable cure.

I was a bit surprised that your water level only came up to about 1.5 inches below the overflow. Higher is more typical.
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Agree - I'll start with flapper and monitor it from there. Still strange that this was the same issue in same bathroom with the American Standard - almost like the water pressure in that bathroom is overpowering the valve.

Regarding 1 1/4" below the tube water line - is this adjustable? I think the so called plumber that installed this Toto Drake II had never installed a Toto before.

Thanks again
Dallas, TX
 

WJcandee

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Korky flapper, the one I would use: http://www.homedepot.com/p/Korky-3-in-Toilet-Tank-Flapper-for-TOTO-2023BP/205213624

As Reach says, try cleaning where the flapper seals against the overflow riser to make sure it's not just that. If you replace the flapper, make sure you set exactly the right number of chain links -- how tight/loose the chain is makes a big difference, and they have calculated the optimal number of links.

As to the fact that both toilets in the same bathroom did this: you now have a good example of how correlation doesn't prove causation.

Good luck, let us know how it goes!

genuine_toto.jpg
 
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Jadnashua

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The toilet fill valves come preadjusted from the factory on Totos, so it would be unusual to need to adjust it. But, they are adjustable...how you do it depends on which type you have - Toto uses valves from at least a couple of manufacturers. If the top is flat and has a screw...that's the height adjustment. If it is more curved, there's a locking tab you have to first remove, then twist and pull, then twist it back to lock it in place. The locking tab prevents you from twisting it, and should be put back in, but it will work without it.

Another place where it could be leaking is from the seal which holds the flapper seat to the tank. To deal with that you need a BIG pair of channel lock pliers, and to remove the tank from the bowl to access it. If a new flapper works, you should be golden. If not, that would be the next thing that I'd try.
 

Wallijonn

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Take off the cap and see if there are mineralized salts in the screen.

528_cap_in.jpg
 
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