Does well cap need vent?

Discussion in 'Pumps and Tanks Well Forum & Blog' started by hickster, Oct 13, 2008.

  1. hickster

    hickster New Member

    Messages:
    11
    I'm installing a sanitary well seal on a new well with a yard hydrant running down the center of it. I purchased a in the well pressure tank with a cycle stop valve. I have 2 holes in seal one for electrical and the other is where i'm placing the hydrant. I keep reading that I need the seal to be vented. Why, and if I didn't what would happen.
    Jim
  2. speedbump

    speedbump Previous member

    Messages:
    4,540
    Location:
    Riverview, Fl.
    Don't worry about a vent. It's not necessary.

    I'm not sure how your going to install the hydrant in the well seal though.

    bob...
  3. hickster

    hickster New Member

    Messages:
    11
    well vent

    Thanks for the info speedbump. As far as the hydrant is concerned the sanitary seal has a 1.25" opening in it as you probably know. I plan on placing the hydrant in this opening and down the well. The hydrant will rest on the sanitary seal. This way it can be used during the winter months and the hydrant will self drain back into the well when shut off. I got the idea from an old pump installer who has know passed on. I hope it works. I guess I don't see why it won't. Thanks again for the info. Jim
  4. valveman

    valveman Moderator Staff Member

    Messages:
    4,468
    Location:
    Lubbock, Texas
    Hi hickster
    What kind of in well tank did you get, and which CSV are you using? The CSV1.25 will not work with an in well tank but, a lot of people try that one because they are using 1.25" pipe. You need the 1" CSV with that tank.

    A well does need to be vented some way, or when the water level pulls down, it will create a vacuum that could draw contaminants into the well. I don't think venting will be a problem, as I don't see how you could seal very well around that hydrant. Which brings up another problem. If the hydrant isn't sealed to the well head, anytime it rains water will run down the hydrant into the well. A lot of people do not realize that rain water will contaminate a well but, it will.
  5. speedbump

    speedbump Previous member

    Messages:
    4,540
    Location:
    Riverview, Fl.
    The Hydrants I am familiar with (and it's been over 25 years since I've needed one) have an elbow on the bottom of the riser. The elbow allows water into the side of the hydrant so water can come up the riser to the spout up top. There is also a drain to let the Hydrant drain upon shutoff. I don't see how you can put this elbow into the well in any way. After the well maybe with a tee, but not in it.

    If you do have a way of making this happen, I'm sure other folks would love to see how do so and maybe a few pictures could be added.

    bob...
  6. Southern Man

    Southern Man DIY Hillbilly

    Messages:
    530
    Location:
    North Carolina
    I agree. That threaded opening on top of the head casting should be fitted with a long nipple and two elbows to point down. I use to plug the elbow opening with polyester fill to keep bugs out, but let enough air go in to vent it.

    I don't see an advantage of putting a hydrant on top of the well to drain into it. In fact all I see there is a way to potentially contaminate it.
  7. hickster

    hickster New Member

    Messages:
    11
    venting well

    Hey valveman, The pressure tank in the well is made by "In well Technologies". I have used a 1" CSV. Im not sure what speed bump was referring to with the elbow thing but there are no elbows to speak of. The hydrant has a 1.25" outer galvanized pipe with a brass shut off drain valve on the botttom of it. When I shut the handle it drains itself in to the well no chance of freezing. It fit nicely in the well. Southern Man and valeman Im also not sure how contamination would occur with this set up as far as rain water is concerned, it is a gasketed seal. What would the difference be if I was using a typical 1.25" piece of pipe out the top? I do see the possibility of drawing a vacuum in the well with this set up with out a vent though. It is working great and I do not hear any hissing from drawing air into the well. Again I appreciate any feedback good or bad. Jim
  8. valveman

    valveman Moderator Staff Member

    Messages:
    4,468
    Location:
    Lubbock, Texas
    OK, if you have a regular submersible well seal, it should have three holes in the top. One is the 1.25" hole you can use for the hydrant. Another would be a 3/4" hole that is usually used for the wire, and a third hole is probably ½" with a plastic plug. You can put a screened vent in either of the other two holes. Just use two elbows so the screen faces down and rain can't get in. You won't hear any hissing, without a vent, the air and contamination will draw in from below ground level.

    Any water that goes back into a well can contaminate the water. If the 1.25" and other holes have gaskets, it will keep out the rain water. However, when you shut off the hydrant, everything in the hydrant and in any attached garden hose will go back down the well. I would remove the hose before shutting off the hydrant. The water in the hose could contaminate the well, and it could start a siphon that would draw a puddle in the yard, or the water in the dog bowl, back down the well.

    That type of tank doesn't even hold ½ of a gallon. It also has a tendency to loose the air charge. A small leak in the house can cause a lot of cycling, and if the air charge is lost, it will click rapidly on and off until the pump is destroyed. You can add an additional pressure tank anywhere in the system. Even a 4 gallon tank that holds 1 gallon of water, sitting on top of the water heater or under a sink would help.
  9. speedbump

    speedbump Previous member

    Messages:
    4,540
    Location:
    Riverview, Fl.
    All right, someone help me out here. How is this yard hydrant going to install in the well???

    I haven't installed one in over 25 years, so maybe things have changed a bit. The valve at the bottom of the hydrant that I'm familiar with, has one inlet. There is no other outlet other than the 1-1/4" pipe going up to the handle on top. So how is he going to hang a submersible from the yard hydrant? Or am I just plain missing something?

    bob...
  10. hickster

    hickster New Member

    Messages:
    11
    well vent

    Speed bump , I hung a submersible pump on a 1'' poly line. I put a 1" csv next and than I added the in well tank, this all screwed into the bottom of the yard hydrant inlet. I placed a T right below the tank where I placed the "At the well Control Kit" made by monitor which runs up to the surface to my pressure switch. The yard hydrant fits inside the 1.25" opening in the sanitary well seal and rests nicely on top of it. I wasn't aware of the problems associated with this tank. The reason a tank wasn't installed in the cabin was it's seasonal and we were afraid the piping coming in would freeze from the well going in the building. No way to drain it back to the well unless we lifted the pitless off each year. There is no basement etc. built on timbers.


    Valveman I do have a question on the contamination. This well is cased to 50' in sand with a screen out the bottom. Where would I get contamination from? Im using a backflow preventer on the discharge out of the hydrant, I hope these things work? This is hooked directly to the building with garden hose and should never have any way to siphon anything back, the system is also pressurized.

    Attached Files:

  11. valveman

    valveman Moderator Staff Member

    Messages:
    4,468
    Location:
    Lubbock, Texas
    When that hydrant is open and pressurized, it can still freeze. When you close the hydrant, everything in the hydrant should drain back into the well. But you will have to remove the backflow device before it can get air to drain back. Otherwise it is like holding your finger over a straw full of water, it will stay full of water and freeze. Hope you are not planning on needing water when it is freezing outside. Anytime you let water go back into a well, you have the possibility of contamination. Even rain water will contaminate a well. Yard hydrants are supposed to drain into a gravel basin away from the well. The air that is drawn into the hydrant when it is drained, can cause contamination inside of the hydrant itself.
  12. speedbump

    speedbump Previous member

    Messages:
    4,540
    Location:
    Riverview, Fl.
    I sure would like to see a good photo of this install!

    bob...
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