Does this toilet bend need replacing?

Discussion in 'Plumbing Forum, Professional & DIY Advice' started by Kimster, Jul 26, 2010.

  1. Kimster

    Kimster New Member

    Messages:
    87
    Location:
    Manitoba
    Hello everyone,

    I've been busy demolishing the bathroom and have gotten to the point where I need to address the plumbing. House is 1956, most of the plumbing has been changed to copper except what's in the walls in the bathroom. Will be going copper to Pex for the sink, shower and toilet supply lines.

    What I'm not sure about is the toilet waste pipe. We had replaced the toilet that came with the house 10 years ago and I know we have a lead toilet flange. I think, having looked at what they're supposed to look like when they're new, ours was broken. We didn't know any better and doubled-up on the wax rings when we put the new toilet on and it hasn't leaked.

    Now, with this reno, I'd like to replace everything that needs changing out, so I know I'll need a new flange, but what about the pipe bend below that? Is it also lead? It's hooked up to a cast stack but it looks like it's in bad shape, to me.

    What say you? Is this a DIY job or do I need to call a professional?

    [​IMG]


    Thanks,
    Kim
  2. Terry

    Terry Administrator Staff Member

    Messages:
    15,416
    Location:
    Bothell, Washington
    The rubber seal and pipe take me very little time to pop in.
    I can't imagine why hj would think it would be so hard.

    I use a 2x4 on the end of the pipe and a hammer. A couple of taps with the hammer and it's seated.

    [​IMG]
    I normally just pull the lead out of the cast iron tee, and use a 4x3 flush bush into a insert rubber pipe donut.
    I used a 4" hub closet flange with this.

    [​IMG]
    Last edited: Jul 27, 2010
  3. Kimster

    Kimster New Member

    Messages:
    87
    Location:
    Manitoba
    Thanks, Terry! -- and so quick. I think my brother and I can manage to do this. It looks like it's easiest to work from above, so I'll have to cut the floor out a bit.

    Another question -- while I'm doing this, is it possible for me to change the rough-in length? Right now it's 10" but can we make it 11 or 12 or is there some code that governs that?
  4. Doherty Plumbing

    Doherty Plumbing Journeyman & Gas Fitter

    Messages:
    810
    Location:
    Penticton, BC
    I'll chime in here! :D

    No code violations there, in fact 12" off FINISHED wall to center of the flange is the norm. So that'd be 12.5" to center off the studs (assuming you're going with 1/2" dry wall).
  5. Kimster

    Kimster New Member

    Messages:
    87
    Location:
    Manitoba
    It'll be 1/2 inch Durock plus a 3/8 inch tile. I'll have to measure how far out the toilet would protrude from the wall. It's a really small bathroom and the toilet can't be in the way of the door.

    I also noticed that in Terry's picture, the bend is quite close to the level of the bathroom floor, where mine is almost at the bottom of the 9" joist, so it's a longer distance from the flange to the bend. Is there another piece of 4" pipe I'll be needing to make up that distance?
  6. Doherty Plumbing

    Doherty Plumbing Journeyman & Gas Fitter

    Messages:
    810
    Location:
    Penticton, BC
    You only need to worry about the tile behind the toilet if it's going to extend up to the height at which the toilet tank sits.

    If you're unsure just rough the toilet it at 13" off finished wall.
  7. Terry

    Terry Administrator Staff Member

    Messages:
    15,416
    Location:
    Bothell, Washington
    With the depth of your joist, you would use a hub x hub 90 bend, a section of pipe, and then a closet flange.

    Most new toilets allow for 1/2" to 1" behind the tank on a 12" rough to finished wall.
    You may want to put your toilet up against a wall, and measure to the bolt holes, and then add 1/2" to be safe.
    Or you can rough at 12" from finished wall, Like Doherty mentions, some plumbers cut the hole at 13" from the rough studs, but you may want to go a little shorter if you have door issues.
  8. Kimster

    Kimster New Member

    Messages:
    87
    Location:
    Manitoba
    Thanks, both of you! Should I be able to find these products at the orange home store or should I be ordering them from a plumbing supply place? Also, is this ABS or PVC?
  9. Doherty Plumbing

    Doherty Plumbing Journeyman & Gas Fitter

    Messages:
    810
    Location:
    Penticton, BC
    I'd go to a plumbing supply house like the nearest Andrew Sheret to you!

    ABS, not PVC
  10. Kimster

    Kimster New Member

    Messages:
    87
    Location:
    Manitoba
    You guys are great. I'm in Winnipeg. There's gotta be a real plumbing place here. I'll find it. If not, I'll order online.

    Cheers!
  11. Doherty Plumbing

    Doherty Plumbing Journeyman & Gas Fitter

    Messages:
    810
    Location:
    Penticton, BC
    Winnipeg eh? My sister and her husband just drove to Winterpeg for a couple of weeks visit with family!
  12. Kimster

    Kimster New Member

    Messages:
    87
    Location:
    Manitoba
    Well, it's a far cry from winterpeg right now. With the humidity, it feels like 41. Of course, if you show up in January, that number will have a minus in front of it ;)
  13. Doherty Plumbing

    Doherty Plumbing Journeyman & Gas Fitter

    Messages:
    810
    Location:
    Penticton, BC
    So I hear!!!!!
  14. hj

    hj Moderator & Master Plumber Staff Member

    Messages:
    27,255
    Location:
    Cave Creek, Arizona
    When I install a cast iron bend with a lead joint, I never have to worry about it "wiggling". "cleaning out" the hub to get rid of the corrosion, for the "donut" to seal properly, takes longer than making a new joint.
  15. Kimster

    Kimster New Member

    Messages:
    87
    Location:
    Manitoba
    HJ, I don't even know what making a new joint means or how it's accomplished. The instructions Terry posted seem simple enough, but of course, when it comes down to actually doing it, there may be things we'll run into that have to be addressed.

    Just out of curiosity, what would be a reasonable charge to do this job plus change out the galvanized in the wall and connect it to the copper in the basement (pipes all accessible) for a shower valve and head, sink and toilet and replace the sink waste pipe to the stack and add shut off valves at the fixtures? All pipes are exposed because bathroom is gutted.
  16. jadnashua

    jadnashua Retired Defense Industry Engineer xxx

    Messages:
    22,317
    Location:
    New England
    Local labor rates are hard to predict. Best to get a local bid on a job.
  17. Doherty Plumbing

    Doherty Plumbing Journeyman & Gas Fitter

    Messages:
    810
    Location:
    Penticton, BC
    $700 or so probably.
  18. Kimster

    Kimster New Member

    Messages:
    87
    Location:
    Manitoba
    Thanks, Doherty. Just wanted a ballpark -- like was I looking at 500 or 3000 -- much appreciated. I do have someone coming out on Friday to have a look at it all. One of the things I was wondering about Terry's picture and my picture is that there is an extra section of cast pipe on mine before the stack. How do you get that out? Or do I even have to get that out before using that rubber donut insert?

    Oh, and that fabric-looking wrap at the end of the bend. What are the chances that's asbestos (brother mentioned that's what it looked like)? I know they used it on heating duct joints but why would it be on this type of pipe? Maybe it's something else?
    Last edited: Jul 27, 2010
  19. Doherty Plumbing

    Doherty Plumbing Journeyman & Gas Fitter

    Messages:
    810
    Location:
    Penticton, BC
    You are welcome.

    You get it out by basically chisseling, prying out the material around the lead 90 (could even be a lead joint). And once you have done that you clean it up really well and insert one of those donuts like terry posted.

    As for the tape I have no idea on that one because I have never seen that tape on a hub a spigot joint before.... Maybe someone else will have an answer on that one.
  20. Kimster

    Kimster New Member

    Messages:
    87
    Location:
    Manitoba
    Doherty, seeing how you're so much help, how can you tell if a tub is cast or steel? Mine is from 1956 and we tried wailing on it with a 5 lb hammer (hubby, not li'l ol' me) and all that happened is that the porcelain chipped off. Whatever it is, it isn't a thin material by any means. Were old steel tubs made super thick?
Similar Threads: Does toilet
Forum Title Date
Plumbing Forum, Professional & DIY Advice FYI: Vidoes of Flushing action of 475 different types of toilets Mar 24, 2012
Plumbing Forum, Professional & DIY Advice Septic Tank Elimination: Does it make sense to install new toilet drain pipe? Jul 18, 2011
Plumbing Forum, Professional & DIY Advice Does this toilet vent look OK? Sep 14, 2010
Plumbing Forum, Professional & DIY Advice Add a toilet - What does it entail? Jul 30, 2009
Plumbing Forum, Professional & DIY Advice 1993 Kohler Wellworth, Why does the toilet back up? Jan 31, 2009

Share This Page