Does CSV work with slow recovery well?

[triagin]

I have a 1 1/2 hp pump set at 210' and an 82 gal diaphram tank. My well will not keep up when watering the lawn, etc. I need to replace my tank and am considering a Pumptec to protect the pump. I am considering a CSV but I'm concerned that if my pump sucks air and the Pumptec shuts it down, I will have no water in the house until the pump is allowed to restart.
In my real scenario, are there any advantages or disadvantages to a CSV with a small tank vs my existing 82 gallon tank?
Thanks for any advice in advance.

 

[Valveman]

There are lots of advantages to using a CSV and a small tank on a low producing well. An 80 gallon size tank holds about 25 gallons of water. Your pump and well see this as an additional load to supply after you have turned off all the faucets. Many times the well will be pumped dry before the pressure tank is refilled. A 1.5HP pump from 210’ should produce about 14 GPM. Every time this pump comes on it is pumping 14 GPM until the pressure tank is full. If your well doesn’t make 14 GPM, it will quickly pump the well dry even when just refilling the tank.

A CSV will turn that pump into a variable flow pump and will let it draw from 1 GPM to 14 GPM matching the amount of water you are using. If you are only using a 3 GPM shower, the CSV only lets the pump draw 3 GPM from the well. If you know your well has a recovery rate of say 6 GPM, then just never run more than 6 GPM when watering the yard, and you will not pump the well dry or cycle the pump to death.

Also when you turn off all the faucets, the CSV only lets the tank refill at a rate of 1 GPM, so you won’t pump the well dry while refilling the tank. However, if you use a large tank, the first ¾ of the tank will be refilled at 14 GPM until the CSV starts to work and tops off the last ¼ of the tank at 1 GPM. So again a big tank is just an extra load on an already low producing well.

I would use a CSV1A with a 4.5 gallon size tank and a Cycle Sensor to protect from a dry run. The pumptec will not work with a CSV, as it sees the low amps caused by the CSV as a dry well condition and shuts the pump off when it should not. The Cycle Sensor is infinitely adjustable and can easily be set to know the difference between the low amps caused by a CSV and the slightly lower amps seen when the well pumps dry.

I have a well that only produces 1 GPM. But there is about 100 gallons stored in the well before it pumps dry. I have a 10 GPM pump, a 4.5 gallon size tank, and a Cycle Sensor. I can use 10 GPM for 10 minutes or 5 GPM for 20 minutes before the well is pumped down. As long as I shut off the faucets before this happens, the CSV slowly refills the little tank at 1 GPM and the pump shuts off without pumping the well dry. Only when I have a lot of company do I have a chance of the well pumping dry and the water shutting off. But if it does my Cycle Sensor is set to restart the pump after 10 minutes. If my well would recover faster than 1 GPM, I could set it to restart in a couple of minutes or so.

 

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[triagin]

There are lots of advantages to using a CSV and a small tank on a low producing well. An 80 gallon size tank holds about 25 gallons of water. Your pump and well see this as an additional load to supply after you have turned off all the faucets. Many times the well will be pumped dry before the pressure tank is refilled. A 1.5HP pump from 210’ should produce about 14 GPM. Every time this pump comes on it is pumping 14 GPM until the pressure tank is full. If your well doesn’t make 14 GPM, it will quickly pump the well dry even when just refilling the tank.

A CSV will turn that pump into a variable flow pump and will let it draw from 1 GPM to 14 GPM matching the amount of water you are using. If you are only using a 3 GPM shower, the CSV only lets the pump draw 3 GPM from the well. If you know your well has a recovery rate of say 6 GPM, then just never run more than 6 GPM when watering the yard, and you will not pump the well dry or cycle the pump to death.

Also when you turn off all the faucets, the CSV only lets the tank refill at a rate of 1 GPM, so you won’t pump the well dry while refilling the tank. However, if you use a large tank, the first ¾ of the tank will be refilled at 14 GPM until the CSV starts to work and tops off the last ¼ of the tank at 1 GPM. So again a big tank is just an extra load on an already low producing well.

I would use a CSV1A with a 4.5 gallon size tank and a Cycle Sensor to protect from a dry run. The pumptec will not work with a CSV, as it sees the low amps caused by the CSV as a dry well condition and shuts the pump off when it should not. The Cycle Sensor is infinitely adjustable and can easily be set to know the difference between the low amps caused by a CSV and the slightly lower amps seen when the well pumps dry.

I have a well that only produces 1 GPM. But there is about 100 gallons stored in the well before it pumps dry. I have a 10 GPM pump, a 4.5 gallon size tank, and a Cycle Sensor. I can use 10 GPM for 10 minutes or 5 GPM for 20 minutes before the well is pumped down. As long as I shut off the faucets before this happens, the CSV slowly refills the little tank at 1 GPM and the pump shuts off without pumping the well dry. Only when I have a lot of company do I have a chance of the well pumping dry and the water shutting off. But if it does my Cycle Sensor is set to restart the pump after 10 minutes. If my well would recover faster than 1 GPM, I could set it to restart in a couple of minutes or so.

 

[triagin]

Thank you very much Valveman for your detailed reply. I think I will take your advice, but I have more information now and more questions.
I tested my recovery rate on my well and it is 3.87 GPM. I have a large yard with 9 watering zones. The most demanding zone has 14 sprinklers with 1.5 GPM nozzles. That's 21 GPM. No wonder I run the well dry! I don't think anything will work for me but a large storage tank or a better well. We are getting tired of dragging hoses so I better figure out a way to utilize our automatic system.
I think I will do as you suggest and give it a try. If I add a 2500 gal tank later it sounds like using a CSV with a small tank will be a good way to fill the large tank. If I did this would I need a second CSV for my second pump?
Please let me know if there is something I am missing or if you have any other thoughts.
Again, thank you very much.
Steve

 

[Valveman]

No matter how you use it or store it you only have 3.87 GPM to work with. You can store 5,500 gallons per day, which will run the 21 GPM sprinkler system for 4.5 hours a day. If you run the sprinklers for 4 hours or less, you will still have plenty of water for the house. How long you run the sprinkler system will also determine how large the storage tank should be.

I would just run the well pump directly to the storage tank and use a float switch to turn the pump on and off. Of course you can restrict the output of the pump with a 3 GPM Dole valve, and use a Cycle Sensor to protect from a dry run just in case. But this way you can set the Cycle Sensor to automatically restart the pump is 30 minutes or so, and the storage tank will still supply water to the house without interruption.

The CSV or better yet the Pside-Kick kit is all you need to control the booster pump. I would use a 1.5HP jet pump with the Pside-Kick attached to boost water to the house and sprinklers.

 

[triagin]

There are lots of advantages to using a CSV and a small tank on a low producing well. An 80 gallon size tank holds about 25 gallons of water. Your pump and well see this as an additional load to supply after you have turned off all the faucets. Many times the well will be pumped dry before the pressure tank is refilled. A 1.5HP pump from 210’ should produce about 14 GPM. Every time this pump comes on it is pumping 14 GPM until the pressure tank is full. If your well doesn’t make 14 GPM, it will quickly pump the well dry even when just refilling the tank.

A CSV will turn that pump into a variable flow pump and will let it draw from 1 GPM to 14 GPM matching the amount of water you are using. If you are only using a 3 GPM shower, the CSV only lets the pump draw 3 GPM from the well. If you know your well has a recovery rate of say 6 GPM, then just never run more than 6 GPM when watering the yard, and you will not pump the well dry or cycle the pump to death.

Also when you turn off all the faucets, the CSV only lets the tank refill at a rate of 1 GPM, so you won’t pump the well dry while refilling the tank. However, if you use a large tank, the first ¾ of the tank will be refilled at 14 GPM until the CSV starts to work and tops off the last ¼ of the tank at 1 GPM. So again a big tank is just an extra load on an already low producing well.

I would use a CSV1A with a 4.5 gallon size tank and a Cycle Sensor to protect from a dry run. The pumptec will not work with a CSV, as it sees the low amps caused by the CSV as a dry well condition and shuts the pump off when it should not. The Cycle Sensor is infinitely adjustable and can easily be set to know the difference between the low amps caused by a CSV and the slightly lower amps seen when the well pumps dry.

I have a well that only produces 1 GPM. But there is about 100 gallons stored in the well before it pumps dry. I have a 10 GPM pump, a 4.5 gallon size tank, and a Cycle Sensor. I can use 10 GPM for 10 minutes or 5 GPM for 20 minutes before the well is pumped down. As long as I shut off the faucets before this happens, the CSV slowly refills the little tank at 1 GPM and the pump shuts off without pumping the well dry. Only when I have a lot of company do I have a chance of the well pumping dry and the water shutting off. But if it does my Cycle Sensor is set to restart the pump after 10 minutes. If my well would recover faster than 1 GPM, I could set it to restart in a couple of minutes or so.

No matter how you use it or store it you only have 3.87 GPM to work with. You can store 5,500 gallons per day, which will run the 21 GPM sprinkler system for 4.5 hours a day. If you run the sprinklers for 4 hours or less, you will still have plenty of water for the house. How long you run the sprinkler system will also determine how large the storage tank should be.

I would just run the well pump directly to the storage tank and use a float switch to turn the pump on and off. Of course you can restrict the output of the pump with a 3 GPM Dole valve, and use a Cycle Sensor to protect from a dry run just in case. But this way you can set the Cycle Sensor to automatically restart the pump is 30 minutes or so, and the storage tank will still supply water to the house without interruption.

The CSV or better yet the Pside-Kick kit is all you need to control the booster pump. I would use a 1.5HP jet pump with the Pside-Kick attached to boost water to the house and sprinklers.
View attachment 28403

Thanks again. This clears everything up for me. The pside-kick setup looks awesome!

 

[triagin]

Thanks again. This clears everything up for me. The pside-kick setup looks awesome!

 

[triagin]

Thanks again. This clears everything up for me. The pside-kick setup looks awesome!

Valveman,
I am not ready to put in a 2500 gal storage tank yet but my 80 gal diaphram tank is bad. I ordered a cycle sensor and a CSV. I plan on putting the CSV inline coming from the submersible and replacing the 80 gal with a 4.4 gallon inline tank. All of my piping is 1 1/4, including inlet to old bladder tank. Can I bushing down the existing pipe in order to fit the 3/4 inlet to the new small tank? The existing pressure switch is on a 1 1/4 tee.
Thanks
Steve

 

[Valveman]

Yes you can bush down the 1 1/4" tee to fit the 3/4" tank connection. It is important that the pressure switch and pressure tank be on the same tee, close to each other. Or if you got the CSV1A you can screw the tank and switch directly into the CSV, as it has the extra ports needed.