Do it myself emergency replumb questions

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sawdust123

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Hi,

My home is a two-story place in southern CA that is about 30 years old. The original plumbing consists of rolled copper pipes running underneath the slab. I am not sure where the second story pipes run to but I assume it is back down to the slab. Tonight a section of hot water pipe under the slab sprung a leak. This section branches off to all of the bathroom fixtures in the house (kitchen and washing machine are beforehand).

I really don't want to tear into the slab. It would be an expensive proposition and part of the pipe may actually run beneath a staircase making it inaccessible. Also, this is the second hot water leak beneath my slab in two months. The other one was in a closed loop that went down a wall and back up it a few studs later. I was able to short circuit that loop by opening up the wall and running pipe outside the wall (it was inside the garage). Even if I could short circuit this loop too, I no longer trust the integrity of the remaining hot water pipe beneath the slab.

My hope is that I can just run new 3/4" copper pipe on the inside of the garage and run 1/2" copper feeds through the wall where the bathrooms are. The water heater is in the garage and all the bathrooms fixtures are within 10' horizontally from the garage wall. In some cases the 1/2" copper pipe would have to run horizontally through the wall studs and perhaps some floor joists.

My questions about this fix are:

1) Does it sound like I will be violating any codes?
2) Could PVC pipe be used?
3) If PVC could be used, would it be preferable (other than from a cost issue)?
4) Are there any tricks or tools that could make this job a lot easier?
5) How often do I need to keep horizontal pipe supported?
6) What important questions have I forgot to ask?

I am not a contractor but I am pretty handy and don't mind buying the right tools for the job. In fact I was just debating if I should get a MAPP torch last week. I think I have my answer now.

Thanks for your help
 

sawdust123

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Oh yeah, another question.

7) What about PEX? That seems like the easiest solution yet. CA just approved it this year.
 

FloridaOrange

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CPVC not PVC for water, is the easiest to work with but may not be allowable, check local codes.
PEX I've heard isn't approved in all of CA, check local codes.
Usually copper runs under slab are run without joints (branches).
Support pipes at 48" if hung from structure. If you are running in walls you will be supported at every stud you pass through.
 

Jimbo

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What part of CA? The state approved PEX, although I think that is still being duked out. San Diego and LA I don't think they are allowing it yet.

Unless you are out in the boonies on a well, there have been no issues in Southern Calif. with water conditions affecting copper, so I and a lot of the other "oldies but goodies" here will recommend copper. 50+ year life expectancy, antimicrobial properties, mice can't chew it, no surprises like came with PB, and as luddites we think the jury is still out on PEX and CPVC.

Your underslab leaks are common from houses in that generation. Piping wasn't well done, concrete leaching, stones in the backfill....etc. They don't put copper under the slab in houses anymore. You hardly ever hear of a leak in the main line from meter to house.....it was the underslab construction that was a problem.


I am sure you are aware that there are repipe specialists, and of course any general plumbing contractor can do it. The repipers have wall patch specialists on staff. You can do this yourself, but it is a lot of work. Generally, you would not open up any ceilings.....or run horizontally through walls. All this is a tremendous amount of patching. Pipes are run up to the attic....then down through the wall at the necessary locations. The hardest part ( besides being in a 140º attic) is opening up the walls behind the sinks and showers for connection work.
 

sawdust123

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I am in Ventura County. I can call a pro I know about the local codes but I suspect by year end we will have approved PEX if it isn't already approved. The local Home Depot already sells it but Lowes doesn't.

I need to have the fix in place by tomorrow at the latest because I am going out of town and can't leave the family without hot water.

I might be able to do a copper attic run for the upstairs bath. The distance to the heater would be under 50 feet. Could I get away with 1/2" pipe if it was a home run? It would go to one bathroom only. I doubt the sink and shower would ever be used at the same time.
I assume type M pipe is sufficient.
 

FloridaOrange

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Could I get away with 1/2" pipe if it was a home run? It would go to one bathroom only. ..I assume type M pipe is sufficient.

You could do 1/2" but realize that there will be some pressure loss due to friction, If you were putting in a new branch system why not put the 3/4" in now and later on you can tap off of it. Insulate your hot water line.

Type L is what I would use.
 

Seaofnames

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CPVC is a beeotch to work with and just isnt a good choice for water supply. If you dont use the manufacturers glue/primer, the warranty is void and is more of a ticking time bomb.

If you are using pex, there are three kinds of pex, well four if you count Wirsbo which most guys with a half a brain would use over other types of plastic due to the way it is connected to fittings.

Pex A, B, and C all have slightly different properties but they meet the same objective. If you are gonna go plastic, just make sure to go to 3/4" for the main runs.

Seeing as how you need a temporary fix, just get some pex and some shark bites...
 

sawdust123

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It is going to be PEX and Shark Bites for today. Home Depot had only one kind of PEX so I didn't look carefully to see the type. I know it isn't the armored stuff.

It has been pretty hot this week so I decided to avoid any attic runs. It also means I don't have to worry about roof rats getting to the PEX.
 

Seaofnames

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Along with galvinized pipe(which is banned for new installs/renos), CPVC is becoming a thing of the past for supply lines here in BC. Especially with hot water piping, it has to be done right, or the fittings wont be 'welded' together properly.

A DIYer would be better off using pex or copper, which is a lot more straight forward in my opinion.

And again, the glue/primer MUST be the manufacturers own or else the warranty is void, and some inspecters may want to see the glue/primer you have used for the install. Imagine a DIYer walking in to a box store, bying X brand of pipe and bying Y brand glue/primer. It may not even weld together properly, leaving the DIYer out of a bunch of money and time.

Yes, I'm sure 99% of people that use CPVC dont have a problem using it...I think it will be a thing of the past for water supply.

And the thickness of the pipe for supply lines...running it through studs and such...copper and pex are much thinner.
 
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sawdust123

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Well, I got all the downstairs bathrooms hooked up. However, many of my 1/2" crimp connections leaked. My 3/4" connections are fine.

I used the little go/no tool that came with the crimper. Perhaps I am not using this right. Should I be able to rotate the tool freely in the go slot? It seems that it only slips on in the direction of the original crimp. Perhaps I need to crimp twice at right angles. Can someone elaborate for me?
 

sawdust123

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If I get frustrated, maybe I will just switch to $harkbites. I believe I left enough slack to cut out the crimp connectors. I assume I wouldn't want to use those ends even if I could carefully remove the crimp ring.
 

MACPLUMB

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Slab leaks

AT THIS TIME I THINK YOU NEED A PROFESSIONAL TO LOCATE YOUR LEAK AND THEN THEY CAN GIVE YOU ADVICE ON WHICH IS BEST TO REROUTE OR REPAIR, ! !

GET YOUR HOME INSURANCE INVOLVED THEY PAY FOR THE LOCATE AND ANY WATER DAMAGE
SINCE I DON'T KNOW WHAT PART OF VENTURA YOU LIVE IN I GOT A COUNTY LIST OF PLUMBERS AT LEAST ONE OR TWO SHOULD BE IN YOUR AREA ! !

BY THE WAY I GREW UP IN VENTURA COUNTY ! ! !





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MACPLUMB

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Slab leaks

AT THIS TIME I THINK YOU NEED A PROFESSIONAL TO LOCATE YOUR LEAK AND THEN THEY CAN GIVE YOU ADVICE ON WHICH IS BEST TO REROUTE OR REPAIR, ! !

GET YOUR HOME INSURANCE INVOLVED THEY PAY FOR THE LOCATE AND ANY WATER DAMAGE
SINCE I DON'T KNOW WHAT PART OF VENTURA YOU LIVE IN I GOT A COUNTY LIST OF PLUMBERS AT LEAST ONE OR TWO SHOULD BE IN YOUR AREA ! !

BY THE WAY I GREW UP IN VENTURA COUNTY ! ! !

Company City Phone
ALCO PLUMBING OJAI (805)646-2077
CAL COAST PLUMBING CAMARILLO (805)482-3420
FLOW - RIGHT PLUMBING & DRAINS VENTURA (805)647-0648
HANNIGAN PLUMBING VENTURA (805)797-6644
JDM PLUMBING SPECIALIST INC VENTURA (805)658-8668
JOHN ROWLAND PLUMBING OAKVIEW (805)644-9833
MARCELLO'S PLUMBING WOODLAND HILLS (818)339-9758
PURE WATER PLUMBING INC SIMI VALLEY (805)583-0829
QUALITY PLUMBING VENTURA (805)659-2662
R G ENGLAND PLUMBING CO NEWBURY PARK (805)376-8406
TNT PLUMBING CONTRACTOR SOMIS (805)386-3393
© Copyright Ventura County Contractors Association , 2004. All rights reserved
 

sawdust123

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Well I recrimped all the 1/2" connections. Everything is working like a charm now. I think I am going to like this pex pipe. I already notice how much faster hot water reaches the furthest fixture from the heater. Today I just need to run the line to the upstairs bathroom. I think I can do it without breaking out the 54" drill.

BTW, I would strongly recommend people avoid the Pex Pocket Crimper that Home Depot sells (pexcrimper.com). What a frustrating tool! It requires multiple crimps with vice grips. It is has two halves that come apart very easily. A slight nudge with the vice grips and you are searching for the missing half again instead of joining a pipe. Also, the thing provides no leverage. You have to supply it all.
 
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sawdust123

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Today I just need to run the line to the upstairs bathroom. I think I can do it without breaking out the 54" drill.
Then again, maybe not. I got the upstairs shower working but not the sink. Thought I could snake a line between the floor joists to go from one to the other. I found two beams blocking me and no room for a long bit. Looks like it will be an attic run if I don't want to break any exposed walls, ceilings or floors.
 

sawdust123

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And the job is done. Hot water everywhere, leaks nowhere. Approximately $200 in parts and 3 gallons of sweat. I did run copper through the attic just in case those roof rats ever come back.
 
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