DIY Again
- Thread starter CodeOne
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Scuba_Dave
Extreme DIY Homeowner
Well why don't the two of you get together, hire an accountant & figure it out
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Frenchie
Jack of all trades
I was honestly wondering if you were joking.
The fact that many start-ups don't make a salary, when it was you who first raised the issue of couting his hours as salary... It seemed like such an out-of-context issue to raise, that I wasn't sure you were serious.
Sorry if I offended you, that was not my intent. I was honestly asking if you were kidding around.
Frenchie
Jack of all trades
I have. Three times. You might want to do the same with Dave's posts.
No problem, I can sit here all day & type the same response over & over
Cute, Dave. Very cute.
Obviously, it's pointless trying to get actual information out of you - you just wants to boast, not explain. And now, it appears, you're just out to taunt me.
Fine. Boast away, Dave - feel good about yourself. I've got better things to do than trying to salvage anything useful to anyone out of this non-discussion.
No, it's not. But that's okay, you've succeeded in making me not care.
Congratulations. You win.
TedL
New Member
A few thoughts from an accounting perspective:
Opportunity costs (the other things one could have done with hours spent on something) are not recognized costs. They most certainly should be part of the decision making/planning, but they don't get recorded as costs.
Some people, myself included, are prohibited by employment contracts or laws from engaging in the practice of their profession other than for their employer. As an overtime ineligible manager, my salary is fixed and cannot be increased by working additional hours. I cannot get a second job or moonlight in my profession. I could flip burgers or don a red or orange apron, as there would be no conflict of interest. Then I would pay taxes of 40% on my $10 or so per hour, before turning it over to a contractor. So, I'd be working 10 hrs or so in one of the boxes to pay for an hour or so of pro time. The fact is, my day job is 100% mind work; it's a welcome break to do things with my hands.
Overall, taxes create a tremendous, if often overlooked, incentive to be self sufficient. If Al gets paid for painting a room in Bob's house, and Bob gets paid to mow Al's lawn, easily half the money exchanged could (or, rather, tax codes say should) go for taxes, at least in NYS. (8% sales tax; 15% federal self employment tax; 7% state income tax; 25% federal income tax; some added on to payment; some deductible when computing others). So, even if each gets paid the same, one has to work 2 hours to be able to purchase one hour of the other's time.
Opportunity costs (the other things one could have done with hours spent on something) are not recognized costs. They most certainly should be part of the decision making/planning, but they don't get recorded as costs.
Some people, myself included, are prohibited by employment contracts or laws from engaging in the practice of their profession other than for their employer. As an overtime ineligible manager, my salary is fixed and cannot be increased by working additional hours. I cannot get a second job or moonlight in my profession. I could flip burgers or don a red or orange apron, as there would be no conflict of interest. Then I would pay taxes of 40% on my $10 or so per hour, before turning it over to a contractor. So, I'd be working 10 hrs or so in one of the boxes to pay for an hour or so of pro time. The fact is, my day job is 100% mind work; it's a welcome break to do things with my hands.
Overall, taxes create a tremendous, if often overlooked, incentive to be self sufficient. If Al gets paid for painting a room in Bob's house, and Bob gets paid to mow Al's lawn, easily half the money exchanged could (or, rather, tax codes say should) go for taxes, at least in NYS. (8% sales tax; 15% federal self employment tax; 7% state income tax; 25% federal income tax; some added on to payment; some deductible when computing others). So, even if each gets paid the same, one has to work 2 hours to be able to purchase one hour of the other's time.
Jadnashua
Retired Defense Industry Engineer xxx
I think something is missing here. Working for yourself on your own home may truely not be a "cost" if during that time you would have no incling, plan, or intent of spending that time in some other profit generating endeavor. That fact that you COULD be spending that time earning money, really is somewhat irrelevant if you WOULDN'T do it. So, if I (or anyone else) chooses to use part of my non-wage earning time to do something on my house that otherwise would require paying someone to do, since the money pool is only based on what I earn, and I wouldn't earn it instead of working on the house, it is indeed a savings in out-of-pocket expenses. Now, whether that is a prudent thing to do, or the fact that a pro would be able to do it faster and maybe better (subjective evaluation, depending on the task and the skill of the person doing the work) is somewhat irrelevant if that's what I want to do.
Now, if I give up time I WOULD or SHOULD be working at my normal paying job, then it truely has a bottom line cost, and depending on what you are being paid (or earn), may or may not be cost effective.
Do you figure the cost of taking a vacation as the total of what you paid to do it plus what it cost you in time not working? Say you can earn $5k in a week, and you spend $5k on the vacation, did it really cost you $10K? If you'd decided you weren't going to work that week because you needed a vacation and wouldn't have worked anyway, does that change the bottom line cost to that $10K? Depends on how you look at it, the same as doing work on your own house...
Slow down and smell the roses...
Now, if I give up time I WOULD or SHOULD be working at my normal paying job, then it truely has a bottom line cost, and depending on what you are being paid (or earn), may or may not be cost effective.
Do you figure the cost of taking a vacation as the total of what you paid to do it plus what it cost you in time not working? Say you can earn $5k in a week, and you spend $5k on the vacation, did it really cost you $10K? If you'd decided you weren't going to work that week because you needed a vacation and wouldn't have worked anyway, does that change the bottom line cost to that $10K? Depends on how you look at it, the same as doing work on your own house...
Slow down and smell the roses...
CodeOne
Code Enforcement
You can keep arguing this till the cows come home, your not going to get everyone to agree on what was made. Why keep it up? He apparently enjoys what he does. So whats the BIG deal? This debating about his profit is not why I started this thread. Give it a break!
Dunbar Plumbing
Master Plumber
A strong diet of tootsie rolls will give you excessive gas.
Scuba_Dave
Extreme DIY Homeowner
Quite capable of doing ALL that work myself thanks
One of the pics from when we 1st bought the house
One of the pics from when we 1st bought the house
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Scuba_Dave
Extreme DIY Homeowner
The LVL beams in the garage
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Scuba_Dave
Extreme DIY Homeowner
The foundation after backfilling & gravel
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Scuba_Dave
Extreme DIY Homeowner
The 1st wall went up around Oct 5th 2008
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Scuba_Dave
Extreme DIY Homeowner
Sunroom that I built, and showing the snow from the last storm
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Scuba_Dave
Extreme DIY Homeowner
Decking on the garage - oops thats the attic
Ready to start the next floor
Here's the garage
Ready to start the next floor
Here's the garage
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Scuba_Dave
Extreme DIY Homeowner
Most of the walls up, I-beams installed & working on the attic
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Scuba_Dave
Extreme DIY Homeowner
The 16" LVL's in the garage were just under 200 lbs each
The 16" LVL in the great room were much easier
The 16" LVL in the great room were much easier
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Scuba_Dave
Extreme DIY Homeowner
It was nice getting the garage done with the next floor on
I did have a friend help me get the bigger windows & doors up onto the deck
I did have a friend help me get the bigger windows & doors up onto the deck
Scuba_Dave
Extreme DIY Homeowner
Of course the wife was bummed as she lost the 2 windows in the kitchen that face West. But when I remodel the kitchen the sink will face the back yard & the sunroom is already open to the kitchen
The brown cabinets are Temp until I'm ready to put the radiant heat floor down
The brown cabinets are Temp until I'm ready to put the radiant heat floor down
Scuba_Dave
Extreme DIY Homeowner
Back deck behind the pool & the picnic table I built
Part of the patio area I put in
Pool cabana extension 10x10
Part of the patio area I put in
Pool cabana extension 10x10
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