Did I get ripped off with new water heater?

[Master Plumber Mark]

he will wise up in good time.

give this fellow some time and he will wise up on his own...

their are a million stories out there and
perhaps he is probably trying to
build up his business or he is simply a one man operation...


being a one man operation is ok and reallly you can charge whatever
you darn well feel like to each customer you run into...

I have a few customers that I despise and I charge them through the nose,
and others that I give it away to like some elderly old customers some time I dont charge them at all,,,..it all really depends more on their atitude


Being a one man operation can be highly lucurative all in all...
no matter what you charge it seems to workout pretty well
sprinkle a little charity work in there along the way dont hurt
the bottom line either.

like yesterday, 2 water heaters, 1 garbage disposal.......

its all good...

 

[Cass]

I think I have said this B4 but

Plumbing is one of the trades that has been under valued for years.

The reason is because come guy learns how to solder a fitting and cut and glue 2 peices of pipe and proclames him self a plumber. Can you hear this:

"Oh I can fix that It easy I know how to do plumbing"

I just went over to a friends resturant that he just bought in a near by county and another friend had installed a hand wash sink. What a joke.
The thing is the county Health Dept. didn't care that it wasn't installed with a permit pulled.

The good ole boy network I guess.

 

[Sponsor]

 

[Dunbar Plumbing]

Send me your Cinci calls and I'll be glad to do them.

They are few and far between; I only do work for Angie's List members in Ohio and rarely do I do water heaters across the river. I do get calls sometimes for rental properties up there if you want those. They never fully read my info sheet on what I will and will not do, including outside work.


MPM,

I am a one-man band myself and I couldn't afford to drop my rates/prices to the ground level this guy is. I as well give charity when the situation dictates the reason. Now if the guy is telling everyone about him, then maybe reverse psychology is the intent.

 

[Lithnights]

Just wanted to chime in here...

I am not a plumber, nor claim to be, but I have learned a lot of plumbing by redoing my house over the past 3 years, as well as reading lots of books, articles and living on this site...

Anyway, my gas water heater burst last week.. after sucking up a couple hundred gallons from my unfinished basement I got to work replacing the old unit. Here was my timeline...

Turning off main water shut off and cutting the hot and cold connections.......... 5 minutes
Turn off the gas shutoff and disconnect the gas line and vent stack......... 5 minutes
Opened the drain line to let it drain while I went off to buy a new one.......... 1 minute
Trip to Home Depot, buy heater, and return 30 minutes
Bringing it downstairs with a friend and set into place......... 10 minutes
Measure the new pipe and solder the fittings and even new cold shut off....... 30 minutes
Connect the gas line using flex.......... 10 minutes
Bring the old one upstairs and to the trash........... 5 minutes
Turn on the shutoff to fill the heater and light the pilot light........... 5 minutes

Now this added up to about 1 hour and 45 minutes. I guess my question is…and believe me when I say I don’t want to sound condescending, but why would it take an expert longer… especially if buy the water heater on the way to the job. I can see travel time would add on the time what else? Lowes was going to charge me $300 for labor.

I'm not trying to say people shouldn't pay a plumber but in my situation, by knowing a bit about gas lines, soldering, and a willingness to learn I managed to work for about 2 hours and save $300. So basically I earned $150 an hour doing it. Much better salary I get by going into the office.

Of course not everyone can replace their own heater but for those that do, I totally understand why they do it. And now I'll know how to do it 8-10 years from now as well.

 

[Dunbar Plumbing]

It's great that you can do your water heater replacements. I'm hoping all my customers will do the same so I don't have to keep saying no. You'd think I would be the first to push tankless since I would be able to carry it in without injury.

I mentioned on one of these threads that sometimes I can replace a water heater in 45 minutes but that is thumping. I really cannot do that anymore, especially if I'm charging hourly. You'd be furious if I charged you $300 for replacement and be gone in an hour......as opposed to 2.5 to 3 hours, the equation looks better.

My job as a licensed plumber is to correct any code violations, you mentioned one, flex supply to the gas thermostat. Not code in KY, it is in CA for earthquake reasons. The inspectors don't go for flex because someone could drop a broom handle down on that line or even worse, a kid playing around the heater rams his toy wagon or plastic wheeled toy into it and creases a hole into the line where it didn't budge at the valve. Believe me, it can happen. Running black iron isn't really bad if it is there to begin with but sometimes alignment can be fun. A little more time.

Plumbers sometimes charge permit fees(required in all states, some cannot get around this process, some do) and just the location in a home can be a real time killer. I did one last year that was a walkout basement, but had to park 3 blocks away because of its urban setting. That sucked! If I would of flat rated that call before I arrived to view it's surrounding, I guarantee you I would of raised my price, no doubt in my mind.

So I hope you can see the reasoning behind the numbers; you might do 1 out of 8 that are easy, and then end up doing the next two that you lose your tail on. Some are really difficult and for no reason other than the modifications to install them.

Here's a good one, switch from a A.O. Smith PowerVent to a GE PowerVent in a closet with no room in it. That, is fun.

 

[Cass]

Lithnights, Do you know how many people can't do that.

Lets say I'm 1 hr from my customer and they can't tell me what size heater it is(some can't tell me if it is gas or electric) and when I get there i'm 1hr. from my supply house and 1 hour back. I don't buy WHs from big box stores for specific reasons. 3 hours so far and all I have done is connect a hose to drain it down.

 

[hj]

heater

One last thing. Being an installer for a particular brand does not mean you "recover your labor if it breaks". It means he will get a new heater for you, and YOU will pay the labor to install it. The manufacture, if anything, only gives a small labor allowance if the heater fails within the first 12 months, and you probably would not see that.

 

[Lithnights]

Rugged/Cass,

I see your points. And I guess I am lucky that I have reached the point where I can do so much on my own.. to a point of course.

I guess what it comes down to is, even if it does take longer than my 1 hour 45 minutes, it seems to be pretty good income for that given job. I'm not saying it's not deserved, just saying it's really nice money. Let's say the average heater replacement even takes 4 hours and one gets $300. $75 an hour is some nice money. If one works 8 hours a day earning that every hour, that is my kind of money. In fact, paying that type of money while making my kind of money is what has pushed me to learn basic electricity, carpentry, plumbing etc. over the past 3 years.

Makes me want to quit my job, get licensed, and become a plumber..

 

[Casman]

I think I have said this B4 but

Plumbing is one of the trades that has been under valued for years.

The reason is because come guy learns how to solder a fitting and cut and glue 2 peices of pipe and proclames him self a plumber. Can you hear this:

"Oh I can fix that It easy I know how to do plumbing"


Being under valued in my opinion is caused by the profession itself, not necessarily by some guy figuring out how to do it. There are always lots of people that try to do all kinds of stuff themselves, can it be done, sure, done right?/ depends.

In my area you'd be lucky if they even show up, let alone put it in. All the ads say "We come out same day", then you call them all, one after another, and they all say we will give you an apt in like 5 days. I had a guy finally show up for my Sat apt., he looks at my old wh, then he says uh O, I gotta call my boss, he goes outside for this, comes back and tells me my vent piping also needs to be replaced, This opinion, after he placed his hand on it, and he'd do it for 400 more, then says how long you lived here? I told him 2 years, and the venting was put in 2 weeks ago, stuff was brand new, liner, along with 2 furnaces, 2 a/c units, 2 humids etc., I told him just put in the water heater, he goes out and says Oh man, it's not on the truck and he'd have to come back Monday. I'd of rather paid the 1299 and been done with it in 2 hours, same day, stead of waiting over a week, having cold water and a wife nagging for 10 days. And you know what, If I was overcharged a bit and they finished in 20 minutes so what, I'm an adult and free to say no. Instead I get nobody coming out, no shows, a show up but without the heater, put value on that? and finally I was forced to be "some Guy" that figured out how to do it, not that I wanted to, and yup, if I had to I could do it again.

 

[JULIE23]

50 gallon replaced A/O 650.00

Milwaukee Wis 9 year warranty I believe.