Delta shower valve rough in

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Bob Engelhardt

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I'm installing a Delta Multichoice 13/14 series valve as a replacement for a 45 year old single handle Symmons . The valve is in a wall that is tiled on BOTH sides, so my access is very limited. I have removed 6 tiles without breaking any - major feat, if I do say so myself. But I don't want to push my luck by trying to remove any more.

Anyhow, if I install the Delta body with the plaster guard flush with the tile face, as Delta says, the piping connections would be further forward than they were with the Symmons. I.e., where the cut off copper piping is now. I really don't want to re-route the piping because of the additional tile that would have to be removed.

So, can I set the new body further back in the wall? Delta says that there is only +- 3/8 leeway, but when I assemble the pieces, it looks like there is WAY more than that. If fact, if I install the optional spacer in the sleeve, and slide the escutcheon all the way to the end of the sleeve, there is an extra 1-1/2". See photo. In fact, if it were to be installed according to Delta, I think that the sleeve & handle would extend out way too far. I only need it to be about 3/4" further back.

delta_multichoice.jpg


I'm guessing that the instructions allow for different trim kits, some of which would require the specified spacing, but that mine does not. Or that it's the spacing that results from using a 2-by stringer. Or, it could be that I'm missing something, which is why I'm asking. (I really don't want to find what I'm missing after everything is soldered into place!)

Thanks,
Bob

DSCF0966.JPG
 
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JohnfrWhipple

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Rough in set backs have some play

Why not rig that bad boy up with a garden hose rig and try it out?

I hate the set backs on most handles and we often set them deeper to improve the look. Test it out.
 
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JohnfrWhipple

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Tweaking a Delta shower valve rough in set back

Bob you can go pick up a few fittings and use your garden hose as a water supply to that fixture. Maybe cut a piece of 1/2" ply to represent the tile and then mock up the shower fixture.

I do not know why they make it so generous the projection of the handle. I think it looks like crap many times and ask my plumbers to dry fit these trims and hanldes like you show because over the years so many people have complained about the handle sticking out to far into the shower.
 
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Jadnashua

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The Big Red Shoe is not going to like this advice. Clearly you are a bad man for deviating from printed instructions.... LOL Just busting your balls a little.

Au contraire...I regularly tell people that the suggested positioning range from the manufacturer is there as a guarantee that the trim will fit, not necessarily how YOU want it to look. Just more of John being antisocial! And, I agree, often they end up sticking out further than I think looks good. But, if the user was old, with advanced arthritis, they may want it sticking out more than others since they may not be able to grip it well, and that extra room may be welcomed...it's your house, set it where you want it.
 

Bob Engelhardt

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Follow up (done)

Over the years I've installed lots of stuff where the instructions didn't make sense. But when I did it my way instead I often found that there was a good reason for the instructed way. 8-( So now I'm careful when I'm about to do it differently, and try to make sure that I'm not missing something.

So, I have it installed, about an inch further back than Delta said and everything is fine.

Here's a Show-and-tell, in case it might help another DIYer:

The rough opening. It goes up the wall because the former valve had a diverter/volume control up there. I'm replacing from the front.
DSCF0968.JPG

The new stringer. Attached with a couple of angles.
DSCF0969.JPG

I laid out the removed tiles on the bench & cut a template the size of the escutcheon. I positioned the template on the wall in the same place to get the valve position.
DSCF0972.JPG

Roughed in. I got a lot from my flame protection cloth!
DSCF0974.JPG

Done. Looks great. Much better than the Delta way.
DSCF0975.JPG
 

Soapm

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The shower I use, downstairs, is about the size of a phone booth. I kept bumping the handle which then either scalds or freezes you but its always a surprise. I lucked out and found a single knob like and couldn't be happier. The wife complains that it looks ghetto but she doesn't use my shower so what do I care?
 

Bob Engelhardt

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Just a question: what's between the tiles and the wood wall?

Oh yeah - I was going to mention that. It's plywood! A higher grade than would be used for sheathing. It was done by the previous owner and it has worked very well. It was done about 45 years ago and I don't think that they had cement backer board.

Bob
 

hj

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quote; I do not know why they make it so generous the projection of the handle.

One reason is that the tile "man" and the customer OFTEN collaborate, after the valve is installed, to change to a "better" tile, which usually means the finish wall is NOT where the plumber was told it would be. If the valve winds up too "shallow" then you are screwed. If it is too deep, MAYBE, the manufacturer makes a "deep rough in kit" to compensate, but they are seldom "cheap". I install the valve so the "plaster guard" is flush with the wall surface I was told, and don't worry about how the handle looks on the "display" board, which is NOT a working model, so they can do anything they want to with it.
 

JohnfrWhipple

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HJ - most times a tiled shower wall (finished measurement) is 1 1/4" from the studs.

This assumes that 3/8" tile is used. 1/2" cement board. Seams taped and topical waterproofing....
 

Bob Engelhardt

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Bob are you going to put the tile back up the same way?

Are you going to make some kine of waterproofing measure

The tile is going back pretty much the same way. I'm not going to worry too much about water proofing. I.e., it won't be up to current standards. Mostly because the other 95% of the shower tile isn't. My goal is that this repair will last as long as the rest, which has been up 45 years or so.

A complication of such a small opening is that there is nothing to fasten the replacement backer to. I needed to add a backer backer, fastened to the back of the current plywood backer:
DSCF0976.JPG

Then I used some MDO as backer - that should be more water resistant than plywood:
DSCF0977.JPG

You might have noticed that I didn't leave holes for the escutcheon screws. Oops. I'll use wood screws into the backer.

Thanks for your help,
Bob
 
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