delta shower valve install question

Discussion in 'Plumbing Forum, Professional & DIY Advice' started by CharlieM, Jul 1, 2006.

  1. CharlieM

    CharlieM New Member

    Messages:
    45
    Location:
    Iowa
    Hi all,

    I'm new here and looking for info on installing a Delta model 1424 LHP shower valve into a Sterling acrylic shower enclosure. The instructions that came with this valve are pretty slim. This would be a "thin-wall" installation as they call it, but they omit the details.

    The attached plasterguard is secured to the valve with two screws at diagonal locations. There are also two empty diagonal screw locations where I assume the escutcheon cover installs.

    Do I leave the plasterguard installed on the valve with the two screws and install it flush with the backside of the enclosure for support ? Then install the escutcheon using the other 2 screw locations ? Essentially this would "sandwich" the acrylic wall between the plasterguard and the escutcheon.

    How large diameter hole should I drill in the enclosure ? I'm guessing maybe 4 inches in order to allow easy access to the screws securing both the plasterguard and escutcheon.

    I've never drilled this acrylic stuff before so I don't know how easily it may crack. Is it best to use a hole saw and support the backside with a piece of plywood as I drill through ?

    The second part of my question has to do with the shower head roughin plumbing. The wall above the enclosure has CBU and will be tiled. Should this be done with something like a drop elbow with the shower arm screwing into the drop elbow - which would put the joint several inches behind the finished wall? Or is it better to sweat on a bend and female fitting to have the shower arm threaded connection end up flush with the finished wall ?

    Lastly, should the joints surrounding the valve escutcheon and shower arm cover get caulked ?

    Lots of questions, I know. I hope they make sense.

    Thanks for your time.
    Charlie
  2. hj

    hj Moderator & Master Plumber Staff Member

    Messages:
    27,272
    Location:
    Cave Creek, Arizona
    valve

    You leave the plastic guard on and cut a hole smaller in diameter than the guard. Then the shower wall is clamped between the cover plate and the guard. The valve is serviced from outside the cover plate, so there is never a reason to remove it. The drop ear elbow would normally be right behind the wall board.
  3. topshot

    topshot New Member

    Messages:
    45
    Location:
    Indiana
    I'm in the exact situation as Charlie except I'm using 1700 trim with the R10000 valve. The plasterguard seems to be held in place with a couple snaps now.

    I take it from hj's response that I should install the surround first before installing the valve so I can insure the plasterguard is up against the back of the surround rather than set back flush with the studs (the surround may also be flush but I don't have it yet).

    The shower drop ear should be placed flush with the studs.

    How far out from the finished wall should the spout nipple come?

    What about caulking the joints surrounding the trim cover, spout and shower arm escutcheon? 100% silicon?
  4. topshot

    topshot New Member

    Messages:
    45
    Location:
    Indiana
    BUMP. As in the other thread, I'm finally getting ready to finish this project so I'd like to make sure I do it all correctly.
  5. jadnashua

    jadnashua Retired Defense Industry Engineer xxx

    Messages:
    22,332
    Location:
    New England
    I'm not familiar with the specifics of that valve, but generically, no, you do not leave the guard on. It's purpose is three-fold: Provide protection for the valve guts while you are putting up the finished wall materials (plaster may not be the material, but you get the idea...mortar won't help it, either); provide sizing info on the access hole (often there's also a template for the size hole required); and, generally, there are marks on the sides that show you how deep it is supposed to be mounted (there are probably min/max lines). Your FINISHED wall must be between the min/max lines, or the trim won't fit. Note, on some, the range is quite large, and many people don't like the look of the handle sticking way out there, so dry fit to test your mounting location with the finished wall thickness in mind.

    Most of the trim plates come with a gasket, so no caulk is required. If you do put any on, leave a gap at the bottom to allow any moisture to drain out if it gets in there. Caulking it will make later maintenance a big pain as you often need to remove it to service the valve.

    For the showerhead, put in some blocking, use a drop-eared 'L', and just screw the arm into that with teflon tape and/or pipe dope when finished tiling. You may want to put a plug or nipple into it to keep mortar out of the threads while tiling.
  6. TedL

    TedL New Member

    Messages:
    604
    Location:
    NY Capital District
    Having installed that valve in my shower, with a Sterling Vikrell surround, I have to agree with HJ's advice on the plasterguard, and disagree with Jim's telling you to discard it. Without it, the wall of the surround can easily flex back away from the trim ring, thus the special "thin wall" instructions.

    If you have access from behind the valve location, it may be feasible to install the valve after the wall. I didn't, so used the box to make a template of the valve location to drill the hole, after the valve was installed. There's goodly tolerances when you compare the OD of the valve with the ID of the gasket on the back of the escutcheon plate.

    When setting the valve depth from finished wall surface, bear in mind the curved surface of the wall. Measure the required depth at the exact distance out from the corner. Put the wall flat on a hard floor, set a straight edge on the wall at the distance from the corner, and measure from the floor to the underside of the edge. Use this as part of your calculations to set the valve depth.
  7. topshot

    topshot New Member

    Messages:
    45
    Location:
    Indiana
    Not sure I followed all of what you're saying here. Which corner are you referring to? I haven't set the valve in yet, but don't have access to the backside anymore.

    Since the wall has a curvature, did you caulk around the trim anyway?
  8. TedL

    TedL New Member

    Messages:
    604
    Location:
    NY Capital District
    Referring to the vertical corner between the back (I assume 5 ft wide) wall and the wet wall where you're installing the valve. You noted the curve. It means the wall is further from the studs in the corner than at the open end of the tub/stall.

    Use screws to mount the valve to the blocking. Put a shim of flat 1/2 in plywood between the valve & blocking. After cutting hole, test fit for depth. Add/subtract shim depth to adjust for imprecise measuring...the screws will let you do it fairly easily.

    I did not caulk escutcheon to wall. I use caulk on the wall just around the valve hole, and form it with a round pen or straw so that if any water gets past the foam, it will be channeled around the valve hole and not go into the valve hole and get behind the wall.

    One more suggestion. Drill the pilot hole first. Put the wall in place and make sure it lines up with the center of the valve. Unless you totally messed up, even if you have to move an inch, the wrong pilot will fall within the required hole. If two inches, within the escutcheon coverage circle.
    Last edited: Aug 7, 2009
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