Delta 600 up/down single handle shower valve?

Discussion in 'Plumbing Forum, Professional & DIY Advice' started by Kognyto, Sep 23, 2008.

  1. Kognyto

    Kognyto New Member

    Messages:
    8
    Location:
    Madison, WI
    OK, I have been searching far and wide for help on what I believe is a Delta 1300 or 1400 series valve and can't find the answer.

    The valve I have is the Delta Classic single handle acrylic knob. It is NOT one of those that works by turning the knob from an off position (all the way clockwise) to on (by turning counterclockwise), nor is it one that pulls out to turn the water on, rather it adjusts the volume control by moving the knob up and down. The temperature control is accomplished by turning the knob left and right.

    I believe the valve is circa mid 1990's (when the building was remodeled), and have not been able to find a similar cartridge, or even any references to this style Delta valve. All the current Delta cartridges for the universal / multichoice do not appear to function like my current cartridge. I would like to purchase a new cartridge that pulls out to adjust the volume control.

    So, my question is this:
    How do the currently available Delta Monitor cartridges operate? (Although I do understand how the 1700 series works.) Do they pull out to turn the water on, or do they turn counterclockwise to turn the water on? Are there any Delta cartridges that work for the multichoice that do operate this way?


    Thanks!


    A good repair tutorial with pictures I found:
    http://www.hammerzone.com/archives/plumbing/bathtub/faucet1/deltarot/replseal.html


    A few additional keywords to help those in the future...
    rough valve
    RP46074
    RP19804
    T13022
    T13122
    T13222
    T13422
  2. Delta cartridges....

    their is no Delta faucet that you pull out on to
    either get volume or temperature...that I am aware of...

    you are 100% sure its a Delta??

    it sounds more like a Moen, if its some odd ball Mixit
    then you are in trouble...

    post a picture of it and anyone here can probably tell you what it is...


    I have delta faucets sitting on a shelf in my building going back into the early 80s .still in the original boxes.
    (yea... I collect them).
    ..

    show me a picture and perhaps I can match it up

  3. jimbo

    jimbo Plumber

    Messages:
    8,997
    Location:
    San Diego
    The Delta's which worked by tipping the handle up were the 600 series. They are not made anymore. There are 3 cartridge types available for the R10000 valves....1300 series, single handle press. bal./1700 series 2 handles, on/off + temp/ 1700T series...thermostatic.

    All work by turning only.

    Monitor is general purpose name they apply to anything later than 600 series, I think,
  4. Herk

    Herk Plumber

    Messages:
    547
    Location:
    S.E. Idaho
    If you're speaking of the standard old Delta acrylic handle valve - you cannot convert it to pull-out. No such animal.

    To repair it, you need a Delta R 3614 repair kit and if it doesn't have the stainless steel ball you need one of those. There are two types - the RP 212 is the ball you need. The repair kit consists of two seats & seals, usually two different bonnet parts for the two types and a single seal, and some unneeded o-rings that are for kitchen faucets.

    [​IMG]

    I would only use OEM Delta parts. Aftermarket parts are not nearly as good. You use the bonnet part with the straight slot, not the V-shaped slot.
  5. Kognyto

    Kognyto New Member

    Messages:
    8
    Location:
    Madison, WI
    Thanks for the quick responses!

    So I had a chance to take the valve apart tonight. It sure doesn't look like the 1300/1400 series valves.

    I poked around the web for the Delta 600 series, and found the 600 series rough valve looks similar to mine in some respects, but the copper pipes in the middle are not there on mine, rather it's an enclosed valve body.
    http://www.lockeplumbing.com/detail...-BODY&r1=greendoor&r2=LEE-MS-64099&r3=LENZYME

    If the 600 series only looks like the products on this page:
    http://www.****************.com/deltabathvalves.html
    then that is not what I have.

    The knob does not have all the jagged edges/crystal-like appearance, rather it is smooth with guitar pick shaped dimples around the edge. At this point I'm thinking perhaps this is not a Delta after all.

    Unfortunately I don't have access to a camera right now, but I will try to get some pictures up as soon as I can.
  6. Kognyto

    Kognyto New Member

    Messages:
    8
    Location:
    Madison, WI
    Besides figuring out what I have already, I'm essentially on a mission to find a valve that pulls out for the volume control, and turns left-right for the temperature control.

    What valves are out there? I'm interested in durability and simplicity.

    As some project background, what I would like to do is use the Kohler valve trim K-T10110-4, but am not sure how the required mastershower rough valve (K-679-KS) operates. I don't want to have to replace the rough valve I currently for three reasons: 1) I like the idea of a simple valve that is easy to get replacement parts, 2) I want integral volume and temperature control with one handle like the valve I currently have, and 3) I don't want to have to rip open the wall (although I'm coming to terms with the fact that every manufacturer has proprietary rough valves and I will likely have to open up the wall). I plan on engineering some linkage components for the Kohler valve to work with whatever rough valve I find that works how I want it to.

    Any suggestions?

    Thanks again, you guys are awesome!
    Last edited: Sep 23, 2008
  7. stick with Delta...

    Stay away from KOHLER.....they are total junk


    You are looking for something that pulls out for volume and you turn left or right for temp...

    That is the old style MOEN valve....

    I would suggest if you are going to change the faucet stick
    with the Delta 1700 faucet....


    It sounds like what you presently have is some odd ball hardware store faucet.. and probably not Delta


  8. hj

    hj Moderator & Master Plumber Staff Member

    Messages:
    27,237
    Location:
    Cave Creek, Arizona
    faucet

    How about a picture of your faucet without the round trim plate. The first picture looks like a 600 Delta, and your description of its operation sounds like a Delta 600. The Delta 1700 has a large lever for volume and a small coaxial pointer handle for temperature. Use it.
  9. jimbo

    jimbo Plumber

    Messages:
    8,997
    Location:
    San Diego
    Why do you want it to pull out? The 2 that come to mind are the Price Pfister Avante, no longer made, and the original Moen Chateau series. Not sure if they make that either. But why go against code and put in a non-pressure balanced type?? The 1700 series Delta has separate knobs for temp and volume, and is an excellent valve with a large variety of trim style options
  10. Kognyto

    Kognyto New Member

    Messages:
    8
    Location:
    Madison, WI
    Is Kohler junk for rough valves, trim valves/handles, or everything? I was under the impression that Kohler made at least decent if not good quality products.

    The reason I want to go with a dual volume and temperature control valve is efficiency. I hate messing around with two or more handles to adjust the volume, on/off, and temperature. I'm not hard set on the pull out for volume control, but that seems like the simplest way to utilize the Kohler valve I want with the desired functionality.

    I see that many people are fans of Delta, especially the 1700 series valves, but I hate their design, and that's why I want to go with the Kohler.

    jimbo, you bring up a good point. I am not familiar with the plumbing code (I'm in Madison, WI). Is there a national plumbing code like there is the National Electrical Code?

    Again, I will see if I can borrow someone's camera and get some pics up.
  11. cdwz

    cdwz New Member

    Messages:
    33
    Location:
    Arlington, Virginia
    I asked for Delta 1700 series fixtures in our recent bathroom remodel, and I'm glad I did. I've found that the temp control lever is basically "set and forget", so you just give the larger lever a tug and you're in business.

    We used to have a pull-out tub control, and I found it was pretty easy to inadvertently rotate it a bit and hose up the temp setting. The 2-lever setup is really pretty nice!
  12. jadnashua

    jadnashua Retired Defense Industry Engineer xxx

    Messages:
    22,313
    Location:
    New England
    All new construction and remodel require anti-scald technology. Two ways to get it, pressure balance and thermostatically controlled valves (that often have pressure balanced, too). With one of these, you won't get scalded if someone flushes a toilet (that may not happen depending on the quality of the design of your supply). This has been a national thing for years now. The only way around this (legally) is if you are repairing an old valve that doesn't have that feature. As soon as you replace it, it must use one approved to current standards, and is a good idea anyways.

    I have a Grohe thermostatically controlled valve. All of this type tend to have separate temperature and volume controls. Pressure balanced valves tend to only have one control and you don't get any volume control...you always go through cold to hot at full volume to get where you want to be. Without the thermostatic control, you'd have to move the temp knob some between winter and summer to account for the varying temp of the incoming cold water.

    It's almost impossible to mix brands trim pieces. Even within the same brand, trim pieces are not universally interchangeable.
  13. Kognyto

    Kognyto New Member

    Messages:
    8
    Location:
    Madison, WI
    Hmm, so I came across an American Standard valve that seems to operate in the desired fashion (but with what appears to be the up/down for volume control like the one currently in the wall). It's their R120 series.

    I wonder if what I have is an old American Standard valve?

    Like I said before, I plan on engineering a linkage between the Kohler trim and the valve I need, so at this point I'm trying to find the right rough valve regardless of manufacturer.
  14. hj

    hj Moderator & Master Plumber Staff Member

    Messages:
    27,237
    Location:
    Cave Creek, Arizona
    faucet

    It could also be a Valley, but we would need a picture of the faucet's handle to be sure.
  15. treaged

    treaged New Member

    Messages:
    1
    Location:
    Ohio
    The valve in the house I am renting is similar to the original OP, except no identifiable marks. It has an acrylic knob handle that I removed and took the picture below: P1010030.jpg

    Can anyone tell me what company manufactures it or is it one of those off-brands that no longer exist?

    Thanks!
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