Damaged Toilet Drain Pipe

Discussion in 'Toilet Forum discussions' started by Mathelo, Dec 17, 2012.

  1. Mathelo

    Mathelo New Member

    Messages:
    43
    Location:
    CT
    Hi, I'm new to this forum.

    I'm renovating a powder room. The biggest part of the job is removing and replacing the tile floor / sub-floor. This also means I had to remove the toilet flange. In the process of removing the flange I damaged the drain pipe. Not sure it could be avoided as it is pretty soft; lead I guess. In any case, I will need to repair this. What is the proper approach.

    Thanks!

    Louis

    Attached Files:

  2. jadnashua

    jadnashua Retired Defense Industry Engineer xxx

    Messages:
    22,180
    Location:
    New England
    It looks like you have a long enough stub of copper coming out of the fitting below where the lead was installed to just cut off the leaded section with just clean pipe sticking up. THen, I'd install a no-hub connector (you'll probably have to go to a plumbing store to get the right sized one) and build it back up with pvc or abs (whichever is typically used in your area). THe only reason to keep it all metal would be if it were required, which probably isn't the case (it can be a requirement on high-rises and in some union friendly locations). Keep in mind that the proper location of the toilet flange is on top of the finished floor and anchored through it into the subflooring. If you notch the tile before laying them, you shouldn't need to drill through the tile. THe flange should be tight on top of the finished floor with the rim supported by the finished floor (which means it must go under it).
  3. Mathelo

    Mathelo New Member

    Messages:
    43
    Location:
    CT
    Jim,

    Thanks for your help.

    Where does the copper end and the lead start? Is it at the bulge? Above or below. Any recommendations on the "no-hub connector"? There seem to be a lot of choices.

    I know to put the flange over the tile. I doubt that pre-drilling the tile will work well since it is the rather complicated small mosaic stone my wife bought. :-/

    Thanks again for your help.

    Louis
  4. jadnashua

    jadnashua Retired Defense Industry Engineer xxx

    Messages:
    22,180
    Location:
    New England
    Look at the copper coming out of the fitting below where the lead is attached...cut below the bulge where the lead is - it should be the same diameter of the pipe coming out of the fitting below it. You need maybe 1.5" or so sticking out. A no-hub connector is a rubber sleeve with a metal reinforcement ring around it that is then clamped to the pipe with SS worm clamps. You'll need one designed for copper on one end and plastic on the other - those sold at places like Lowes or Home Depot generally are used to connect plastic to plastic or CI to CI, not transition. A plumbing supply house will have them.
  5. Mathelo

    Mathelo New Member

    Messages:
    43
    Location:
    CT
    Thanks! What would you use to cut the pipe?
  6. jadnashua

    jadnashua Retired Defense Industry Engineer xxx

    Messages:
    22,180
    Location:
    New England
    A hacksaw, or if you have one big enough (unlikely!), a pipe cutter. You could use a sawsall, but to get it fairly even takes some skill...you want the cut to be close to square with the pipe (ideally, perfectly square). You could probably also do it with a Dremel like tool with a cutoff wheel, but it would take awhile. It would take a big torch to remove the solder, fitting, and lead, but that would be an option as well (just don't burn the house down!).
  7. wjcandee

    wjcandee Wise One

    Messages:
    1,901
    Location:
    New York, NY
    The Dremel will cut it faster than you think. Keeping it square, however, is another matter.
  8. Mathelo

    Mathelo New Member

    Messages:
    43
    Location:
    CT
    Shouldn't the lead tear away pretty easily if I spli it down the sides?
  9. wptski

    wptski Retired Machine Repairman

    Messages:
    137
    Location:
    Warren, MI
    You've got lots room for maybe a SawsAll, etc. but in my case, I used a Fein Multimaster below. I tried a Dremel but kept on breaking the discs.

    That jagged pipe was from the original build in 1956.

    DSCF0086.jpg
  10. jadnashua

    jadnashua Retired Defense Industry Engineer xxx

    Messages:
    22,180
    Location:
    New England
    At some point, that lead is soldered to a brass piece that is soldered to the copper pipe (at least that's the way it normally is). While above the brass piece, you might cut or tear it (tearing would be tough), where they are soldered together will not come apart easily without a big torch.
  11. Mathelo

    Mathelo New Member

    Messages:
    43
    Location:
    CT
    I have a Fein Multimaster!!! So that is how I will do it but I need a new blade since I destroyed the one I had.
  12. wptski

    wptski Retired Machine Repairman

    Messages:
    137
    Location:
    Warren, MI
    I had one from Imperial Blade and it wouldn't cut my cast iron pipe. I called them and I was using the general purpose blade which isn't designed for that. They even replaced it(great guy to deal with) but I need the something right away. I used the OEM Fein blade and it worked pretty good.

    I may invest in a higher series blade for the future. Worked nice on the flange bolts which were rusted solid.
  13. Mathelo

    Mathelo New Member

    Messages:
    43
    Location:
    CT
    So is the round protruding ring the brass part?
  14. jadnashua

    jadnashua Retired Defense Industry Engineer xxx

    Messages:
    22,180
    Location:
    New England
    Lead is easily scratched and will be silver colored...brass is harder and, well, is brass colored.
  15. Mathelo

    Mathelo New Member

    Messages:
    43
    Location:
    CT
    Is this an acceptable coupling?

    With the advice I received here I was able to cut this down to the copper with a clean and straight cut. I ended up using my IR cutoff tool for a rough cut and then finished off with my Dremel tool using a large screw clamp as a straight edge. Worked perfectly.

    I got a Fernco Proflex coupling from the local plumbing store. I went in looking for a 3007-33 for a 3" PVC to copper but they didn't carry it. Instead I left with a 3001-33, which fits but is specified for CI to PVC.

    Will this be okay or should I find a 3007-33? Once this is installed, getting to it will be near impossible.

    Louis
  16. cacher_chick

    cacher_chick Test, Don't Guess!

    Messages:
    3,250
    Location:
    Land of Cheese
    Copper will have a smaller o.d. than c.i. or PVC. I would seek out the right coupler.
  17. Mathelo

    Mathelo New Member

    Messages:
    43
    Location:
    CT
    It's not the copper end that is in question. It is the CI end. CI O.D. for 3" pipe size is 3.8 inches or larger depending on class. PVC O.D. is 3.5" This suggest that the coupling would be a bit large for the PVC but it was tight. I had a hard time getting it on.

    Louis
  18. cacher_chick

    cacher_chick Test, Don't Guess!

    Messages:
    3,250
    Location:
    Land of Cheese
    It should fit snugly. If it is sloppy loose, that would be a problem.
  19. Mathelo

    Mathelo New Member

    Messages:
    43
    Location:
    CT
    It is snug.
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