Cycle stop valve and flow inducer sleeve

Discussion in 'Pumps and Tanks Well Forum & Blog' started by jackbombay, Jul 18, 2012.

  1. jackbombay

    jackbombay New Member

    Messages:
    8
    Location:
    eastern Idaho
    Hello, I would like to add a CSV to my existing well system, because of the layout of the system I need to install a CSV1W just below my pitless adapter in my well so installation and removal is not all that simple so if the pump needs to come out for a flow sleeve I want to only open the well once.

    There is currently a 2 HP Franklin pump in our well that servers a 3 bed/3 bath house and a 1 bed 1 bath garage apartment. The well is 120' deep and the water level is at about 55', the pump is set at about 100'. The pump was new about 10 years ago, that is when the well was dug as well. We have an 80 gallon pressure tank. My main question is, do I need a flow inducer sleeve? I found them for sale here and they are not expensive, but the pump of course has to come out of the well to install it. Our well water is very cold here, about 40* in the middle of winter and 43* in the middle of summer, I'm sure this will help keep the pump cool, but it seems like a 2 HP pump is kid of big and my make notable heat. I e-mailed franklin about this and they said I should use a flow inducer sleeve, fwiw.

    My primary reason for installing the CSV is to get rid of water hammer when the pump turns on and off. We have a noritz tankless water heater and the water hammer moves enough water through the heater that the heater cycles on and off every time the well pump starts and stops. The engineer from Franklin said that sounds like a bad check valve, so a column of water comes speeding up from the well and slams into the water already in the system, which makes sense, but does not explain the water hammer when the pump stops, that water hammer is not as bad as the water hammer when the pump starts though, maybe %25 less.

    Also, the CSV1W when installed will be about 8 vertical feet below the pressure switch for our well system, according to google the water pressure at 8' is 18 PSI, so it seems that I will need to set the CSV1W to 68 PSI to get a constant 50 PSI when the pump is running and the CSV is "controlling the pressure, is this correct? I have fittings so I can hook water pressure to the CSV1W in my yard to set the pressure accurately before it gets installed in the well.

    I did find this thread here which leads me to believe that I can getaway without a flow inducer sleeve, but he does have a 1/2 HP pump where I have a 2 HP pump so its kid of apples and oranges :-/
  2. valveman

    valveman Moderator Staff Member

    Messages:
    4,381
    Location:
    Lubbock, Texas
    I am surprised that Franklin said you needed a flow inducer. They claim their 2 HP and smaller motors are so short that they do not need a flow inducer. However, the temp of the water has less to do with motor cooling that where the water enters the well. With the pump set at 100’, if all the perforations are below 100’, or if it is a rock well open-ended at the bottom, then you don’t need a flow inducer.

    Only when a pump is fed from the top is a flow inducer needed. I don’t think you need to worry about that.

    Now setting the CSV1W about 8’ below the ground means you will only lose 3 PSI. I don’t think that is even worth adjusting for. But if your turn the set screw one full turn to the right, it will be set a t 55 PSI.
  3. jackbombay

    jackbombay New Member

    Messages:
    8
    Location:
    eastern Idaho
    Great, I won't need a flow sleeve then, I just called the well driller who drilled the well and they looked up my well in their records and the well casing is not perforated, it is as you say a "rock well open-ended".

    Thanks a bunch for the info and correction on the pressure at 8', I guess the numbers I looked up were absolute pressure as 15 PSI subtracted from 18 leaves me with 3 that you posted.

    Thanks for the info, my plumber and I will open the well and get in a fight with the pitless adapter tomorrow morning and get the CSV installed!
  4. LLigetfa

    LLigetfa DIYer, not in the trades

    Messages:
    3,833
    Location:
    NW Ontario, Canada
    The formula is .43 PSI per foot, so I'd go with valveman over Google.

    If you need to pull the pump all the way out, then I would put a sleeve on it JIC, but if you just pull it up high enough to install the CSV below the pitless then go with what valveman said. Still, I'd be concerned about the root cause for the water hammer and if there are checkvalves in-line, you'd want to pull the pump and remove them. If the checkvalve in the pump is bad, you'd want to install one on the outlet.
  5. jackbombay

    jackbombay New Member

    Messages:
    8
    Location:
    eastern Idaho
    While my plumber is here we will certainly be checking into the water hammer issue.
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